Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?



  • @tastiger Actually, I don't have a problem. I don't think I've spent full price on Poser since version 2, my very first. Every other time has been upgrades And even if it had been, we're talking at least two years or more between versions. I've spent more on operating systems and computers.



  • One thing no one has mentioned and that is Why is there so much of the same content being sold and resold? In the US there are about 2,500,000 new adults entering the work force being able to buy there own things having left High School behind. If even 1/10 of 1 percent (2,500) pick up the FREE Daz what do they need? A couple of Pro Packs Vicky whichever number maybe an outfit or two if they really want a dressed dolly and they are set. And next year another 2.5M adults does the same thing. But happens to the first group of 2,500? Does anyone here really think they all stick with 3D? If they do then this the only hobby to have that type of retention rate. I can think of at least 30 hobbies I have done in the past Skiing, Tennis, Bowling etc. that I don't do now and if I did I would borrow the equipment (such as a bowling ball). In most hobbies if 1 percent stick with for more then 5 years that is considered a success.

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.



  • @richard60 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.

    I have never seen a vendor say dynamic cloth is too hard to use. Customers, yes, vendors no.

    I think vendors would prefer creating dynamic clothing. No rigging, no morphing? HEAVEN for vendors. ROI on an outfit would be greatly improved.

    No, what I see is customers refusing to even TRY dynamic cloth, not the vendors. Again, PE being a perfect example - she has plenty of dynamic cloth, from karanta alone and several others.

    It just slays me that suddenly, DAZ gets credit for FINALLY giving their customers usable dynamic cloth and Poser users suddenly claiming they created the possibility.



  • @robzhena said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.

    Any vendor that offers both formats of their products is a star in my book. My issue has been with a lot of long-time Poser vendors who have totally given up by "switching" to DS only. I know it's double the effort, but pricing can be adjusted to accommodate 2 formats rather than 1. OR, they can create two separate products, though I don't know how many brokerages like that, unless of course, like Blue Tree Studio, they're "updating" older Poser only products.

    I'm just greatly disappointed in vendors I've been buying from for years who no longer have anything I want to purchase, even though their new products look great, and would most likely be in my Runtime if they were still creating them for Poser too.



  • @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @richard60 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.

    I have never seen a vendor say dynamic cloth is too hard to use. Customers, yes, vendors no.

    I think vendors would prefer creating dynamic clothing. No rigging, no morphing? HEAVEN for vendors. ROI on an outfit would be greatly improved.

    No, what I see is customers refusing to even TRY dynamic cloth, not the vendors. Again, PE being a perfect example - she has plenty of dynamic cloth, from karanta alone and several others.

    It just slays me that suddenly, DAZ gets credit for FINALLY giving their customers usable dynamic cloth and Poser users suddenly claiming they created the possibility.

    Well, that is one reason I did this Poser Render Challenge using the features of Poser. To try and get more people to use the features and to show what kind of Artwork can be done.



  • @miss-b said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @robzhena said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.

    Any vendor that offers both formats of their products is a star in my book. My issue has been with a lot of long-time Poser vendors who have totally given up by "switching" to DS only. I know it's double the effort, but pricing can be adjusted to accommodate 2 formats rather than 1. OR, they can create two separate products, though I don't know how many brokerages like that, unless of course, like Blue Tree Studio, they're "updating" older Poser only products.

    I'm just greatly disappointed in vendors I've been buying from for years who no longer have anything I want to purchase, even though their new products look great, and would most likely be in my Runtime if they were still creating them for Poser too.

    I think with someone like Stonemason, who, if I can recall what he said about why he was abandoning Poser, I think it was a matter of supporting so many render engines. I can't say I fault him for that. When I was doing Dawn's House, the idea of having to learn 3Delight, and Iray scared the crap out of me.



  • @redphantom said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    The mega discount sales are what is known as loss leaders. Stores in real life have them. You'll see a lot of them next week called Black Friday sales.

    Stores have them on highly commoditized products and profits happen on volume. That is not what is happening here.

    Poser compatible content is not highly commoditized because even factoring the DAZ user base, the content buying market isn't that big. However DAZ takes a huge slice of each product, and they are participating in every sale - for DAZ, it is a commoditized market, but not for the individual vendor. The business model then works more like discount bin product in which product 'tires' quickly and gets binned quickly, so DAZ loses interest in promoting it and it gets much lower ongoing sales. Again, DAZ makes it on volume, but the individual vendor does not proportionately make it.

    If you want indie vendors to thrive, buy directly from them. You can find almost all Meshbox Content now at Mirye Store, including our Complete Editions. The Complete Editions include seven models we release individually plus a bonus model - collectively together, you pay less per model, and you get one that's not available on any brokerage.

    We are also about to start our Guess Toon Santa 2018 contest as well (put your thinking caps on, time will be short), something we do as individual vendors.

    If you've been using Poser for a long time, take the time to order directly from the vendors. A few of us indie folks are left and fighting the good fight.



  • @eclark1849 I know, are you're killing me since I don't have a Renderosity account and couldn't use the prizes even IF I won.



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  • @eclark1849 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.

    I have never seen a vendor say dynamic cloth is too hard to use. Customers, yes, vendors no.

    I think vendors would prefer creating dynamic clothing. No rigging, no morphing? HEAVEN for vendors. ROI on an outfit would be greatly improved.

    No, what I see is customers refusing to even TRY dynamic cloth, not the vendors. Again, PE being a perfect example - she has plenty of dynamic cloth, from karanta alone and several others.

    It just slays me that suddenly, DAZ gets credit for FINALLY giving their customers usable dynamic cloth and Poser users suddenly claiming they created the possibility.

    That is something I cannot get my head around - why do users persist in using a technology that first appeared under the Metacreations flag in 1999?

    What other application would you use a feature that is nearly 20 years old -
    Yes that's right - 20 years old!



  • @tastiger I still use spell checker and that is at least 30 years old. Spreadsheets databases there a lot technologies that are more then 20 years old that are still useful.



  • @richard60 I have to agree. I'm still using a digital calendar that was original written for DOS, and then upgraded when I got my first Windows 95 computer. It's still working fine and dandy on my Windows 7 Pro computer WITHOUT ever being upgraded again.

    Oh and don't get me started on spreadsheets. I think I live my life with them. Started with Lotus 123 on my DOS computer, and have been using Excel on all my Windows computers.



  • @richard60 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @tastiger I still use spell checker and that is at least 30 years old. Spreadsheets databases there a lot technologies that are more then 20 years old that are still useful.

    OK so I over generalised in my statement, so let's just stick to Poser, the software has seen so many changes in the years since conforming clothing appeared, but there seems to be a reluctance to adopt the new features such as dynamic clothing, even after nigh on 20 years, that is what I don't understand, I remember my frustration at trying to get some conforming clothing to do something like sit, nightmares, even with a sit morph. Not to mention doing even a short animation, and as has been pointed out DAZ is now choofing out dynamic clothing like there is no tomorrow.

    The other thing with purchases is that stores have restricted what an outfit can look like - take for example historical outfits - I want to do an Egyptian scene - not all Egyptian women covered their breasts, but try and find an outfit that has the top separate so it can be removed or hidden. But you can't show boobs at most stores.

    Then there is armour - I can't find any examples in history where a "boob plate" was used. "Please, stab me in my fleshy stomach!" And then there is the overly sculpted boob-plate breastplate for suits of plate mail, which gives fictional woman warriors the appearance of femininity, but places a rather dangerous metal protrusion right at the wearer's sternum.
    More frustration... let's have some realistic clothing - please, and I may just part with some money.



  • Now that I can get behind. The lack of using the Tech that is in Poser has been a real drag on where the content should be at now. I have never found the conforming clothing to be useful. Even when using the Queen V4 and content made for her it never worked without poke-thru when trying to animate. Which is a very large reason I have not been a fan of DAZ or their figures.

    That still won't solve the problem of vendors and what content they create. As @eclark1849 has said most of the Poser users would probably want scenery and props more then more dresses. At Runtime DNA before they closed their most popular product was the Terradome 1&2. I have almost all the add-ins for that product line and that loss of vendors was a real let down.



  • @glitterati3d Well, one thing it HAS done is to spark my own interest in rendering with Bullet Physics and seeing how far I can push the Cloth sims.



  • Also, since we're discussing Poser newbies, one of the things I honestly think we're losing out to Studio users on is the Point and render sets. So yes, Poser can do all of these wonderful things, but no one wants to figure out how on their own. They want someone to just give the the answer on how to do it. Or better yet make it so all I have to do is load it and render.



  • @miss-b said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @robzhena said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.

    Any vendor that offers both formats of their products is a star in my book. My issue has been with a lot of long-time Poser vendors who have totally given up by "switching" to DS only. I know it's double the effort, but pricing can be adjusted to accommodate 2 formats rather than 1. OR, they can create two separate products, though I don't know how many brokerages like that, unless of course, like Blue Tree Studio, they're "updating" older Poser only products.

    I'm just greatly disappointed in vendors I've been buying from for years who no longer have anything I want to purchase, even though their new products look great, and would most likely be in my Runtime if they were still creating them for Poser too.
    Miss B, do you remember the trouble I got into a few months back when I suggested that a vendor might charge more for converting a set to a different format? I was only talking about five bucks or so, but you'd think I had suggested $50.



  • I still buy content from renderosity/daz. truth is, I see the market is flooded with amazing new content for G3/G8, while the main character I'm working with (V4) is being left behind. some great artists like tempesta3D is still making stuff for her, so I purchase here and there, and there's also Karina who gave us Sasha-16...I'm really grateful for those. the sad truth is, I find myself searching, DYING to buy things that the market just doesn't have to offer for me (such as extra-highly-detailed textures & displacement maps for V4, just to name one. those are already available for the "new" DAZ figures...). when I saw there's no supply, I tried to find a professional poser artist with a will to hire him/her and pay them to create what I need. not a single one applied for my offer (posted it here, a while ago, in daz forum, and also tried looking in upword/fivver).

    so that leaves people like me with only two options: the first is making a gradual move to the future, which is (and I say it with sadness) DAZ3D.

    the second option is learning to create what I need myself.

    at the moment I chose the second option, while I do have DAZ installed and I started messing around with it here and there.

    so...putting it simply: if the market will supply my demand, I'll be more than happy to spend my cash on it...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    What many do not realise is that PE is not harder to make rigged clothing for then for G8F.

    Recently I converted a Poser dress to DS dForce, I rigged weightmapped, set the dforce parameters, build in many morphs and build in a...MOUNTAIN of JCMs...it was very timeconsuming and tideous.

    The huge advantage for Poser is, when making clothing for Poser’s Clothroom or VWD Cloth and Hair, no rigging, no weightmapping no JCMs, no tediousness, very fast production time, indeed HEAVEN for creators...but few who are interested.

    In the time you make one rigged piece you can make two maybe three Poser dynamics with everything...

    Yes rigging not fun, at least for me, If I could team-up with a good rigger, I probably would, I truly enjoy the modelling, UVmapping, texturing and promo making....but the rigging....

    Urg...



  • @gsfcreator Why are you using V4? Do you not know or realize that she is an older figure? There's no right or wrong answer, btw, just gathering info.