Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?

  • There is no single answer.

    As a customer, I feel the biggest issue is that most Poser vendors have absolutely no understanding of basic economics and marketing.

    For me, I am still spending money ($100 - $200 a month) - Daz got a lot of that due to their Annual Platinum Club sale. If a Poser vendor at 'Rosity wants a shot at that cash, they need to make something that hasn't been done to death. And that is the key - there are literally 1,000s of V4 characters (95+% early 20's Caucasians), 100's of lingerie and hookerware outfits, and such. With those niches saturated, vendors have three choices if they want to continue to make content -

    1. Accept less sales in a saturated market.
    2. Convert legacy content to newer figures. - I'd rather pay for a vendor converted V4 outfit for Dawn/Pauline/PE than work the fitting room (time is money) - but, hey, it is the vendors not converting their content the way the Daz vendors do every time there is a series of g figures released. Is that the customer's fault or the vendors?
    3. Make content in a less saturated niche. It may not be what you like, but what you like is less important than what your customers like.

    I would also point out that a number of vendors told customers over the years that if they didn't like what vendors made, they should learn to make their own content. Which, apparently a lot of us did.

    Please note - I am not addressing the whole I only make what I am personally interested in vendors. Those folks are not professionals; they are amateurs monetizing their hobby. Nothing wrong with that, but remember what adjective is most used to describe artists (starving).

    AFA Negativity on 'Rosity Forums. That is what happens when the 'Rosity forum moderators don't do their jobs and let the DAZ trolls run wild. Every Is Poser dying or New figure for Poser thread is populated by folks that either use DS or other products - Cinema3D in the case of Wolf359.

    What is worse is that folks like Wolf359 will NEVER buy ANY product from 'Rosity, (he as stated repeatedly that he would rather spend 3 or 4 hours making an outfit rather than buying one.), but the moderators will certainly let him poison the well.

    These are people that have at least an emotional investment in competing products, or in the case of folks like Male3dia, a direct financial investment as a DS exclusive vendor at Daz - folks that only use DS products that never spend time in the DS forums, just the Poser forums spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). If I was a Poser vendor, I would be at least a little concerned about that.

    That is where the negativity comes from. The way to make that stop is to bring down the banhammer, but they won't; because reasons. And for those of you that slept through civics class in Jr. High, the 1st Amendment is about governments stifling speech. There are no "free speech" rights on a private forum.

  • @kalypso said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    Most of the Poser vendors that I've supported in the past 19 years are now working exclusively with DAZ Studio so that's my reason. I can't just buy something because it works in Poser, I have to want it and/or need it as well. Since this is just a hobby for me if there's nothing out there for Poser that I like then I just don't bother with Poser, I play WoW and now that Fallout 76 is out I'm getting a new hobby :)

    Pretty much the same story for me - most of my favourite vendors are now only working with D|S, and I have to admit that with the dramas of trying to create Genesis 2 cr2's for use in Mimic, I found it was easier for me to load up the 32 bit version of D|S and use lipsync,, then open the saved file in D|S 64 bit and render.
    Why do I choose to use Genesis 2 when there are plenty of Poser figures?

    • My favourite vendors plus the fact that the outfit I needed for the video was available for Genesis 2 ready made.

  • I only buy things when I need them... and when your library is bursting at the seems from years of collecting... you find you don't need new items too often these days.

  • @glitterati3d The economy's gains mostly go to the rich. The rest of us have to get by as best we can. You feel trapped by what customers can pay. We feel trapped by what we can pay too.

    It would be interesting for a vendor to try the Patreon route. Most of the money goes to the creator that way.

  • It's not that I don't support vendors, it's that I can't afford to support vendors.

    Those super duper sales are the only way I can usually justify spending money on Poser content now. Am I sad that I can't buy things out right when I see them, of course, but currently my financial responsibilities don't include hobbies like Poser.

    @Glitterati3D It's not valuing the work at .75 cents, that's just market prices, that product could be the most valuable content they've ever owned. Maybe .75 cents is all they could afford? The price someone pays for something is not the entire story.

  • @eclark1849

    I read most of the reponses in this thread with interest, even upvoting some of them in agreement. For me, I still do buy something I feel is useful for my type of scene project. Honestly, I don't see many items which fit my own vision, so yes, I have had to model my own content, and develop my own shaders for them. To be very honest, I don't often see my kind of Must-Buy-Now items, sale or not on sale, in any of the established online brokerages, either for Poser or for Daz Studio. My bank account certainly informs me I have spent some coin, though.

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  • @johndoe641 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @Glitterati3D It's not valuing the work at .75 cents, that's just market prices, that product could be the most valuable content they've ever owned. Maybe .75 cents is all they could afford? The price someone pays for something is not the entire story.

    Oh, dear, JohnDoe, but it IS the entire story for the vendor.

    After months of development, making massive investment to put the product on the market, enduring insult after insult, the ultimate insult is a customer whose only motivation to buy is how badly they can screw you.

    I was a lucky vendor, didn't rely on my sales to pay the bills and eat. Vendor funds were my "3D mad money," but I signed on because I enjoyed creating products. And, quite frankly, customer behavior took every bit of joy right out of the process.

    It's why I am no longer a vendor.

    Now, if customers think that DAZ will continue these sales, and ridiculous pricing structures when you folks make them the only game in town, think again.

  • @biscuits It looks like your patreon focuses on Daz, which is completely understandable, but I’m only interested in things that easily import into Poser. I’m not criticizing your choice here. Vendors have to specialize. Good luck with the experiment!

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  • Glitterati, it sounds like your problem is with the brokers, rather than the customers. Remember, if you're getting $.75, we're paying $1.50. Now, since this was an arbitrary number and I don't think I've seen anything on sale for that little, also keep in mind we are really paying much more than that. If you really think you should be getting $20 for something, we would have to pay $40 for it. That gets into the professional end of things, based on pricing at turbosquid.So rather than yelling at us for being cheap, yell at the brokers for being greedy.

  • @redphantom Sorry, redphantom, but you've got it wrong. The VENDOR sets the prices for their products, not the brokerage (though I have no idea how DAZ functions). Now, don't assume I am defending the brokerages, as I have my own very valid issue with all of them. But, in that assumption, you are completely and totally wrong.

    I vended at Renderosity, RDNA and Hivewire, and never ONCE did any of those brokerages set the price of my products in their store. I set my prices based on my personal marketing knowledge and information (sorry, SSGBryan, you're wrong again).

    I never set a price anywhere near even $20.00 for a product. The closest I got was $14.95 for the Dusk Tuxedo and that was because I have a tremendous investment in that product - it took 3 months to rig it correctly, I purchased MRs for the cloth textures for it, and had a lot in it for the grand total of $3.75 for every copy sold.

  • I think you need to re-read my comment. I never said the broker sets the price. (though it appears Rendo at least has a minimum requirement based on their pricing guidelines PDF) I said that we pay double what you get. Vendors have said the brokers take 50%. Nor did I say you charged $20 for things. I said you seem to think that's what you should get. This is an assumption based on things you've said over the years not a direct quote from anything you've said in this thread. I'm sorry you did not do as well as you wanted as a vendor. However, I don't think gripping about your potential customers to your potential customers is good PR or a good way to increase sales. You have been complaining about our spending habits since before you closed your last store. And don't think that just because you complained here rather than at the forum of your store's brokerage word didn't get around.

  • @redphantom LOL, if you say so. But there is absolutely no justification for saying anyone who is a Poser vendor expects to make $20.00 after everyone else takes their cut. Stonemason, perhaps. DAZ, perhaps. Poser, not even a valid conversation. Yes, I find Poser customer behavior abhorrent. It's why I quit dealing with it.

  • @glitterati3d Then I have to ask, why Stonemason? What is he doing that allows him to charge that much, but no one else? And don't get me wrong. I did buy some of Stonemasons's sets myself when I was much newer to Poser. But frankly, Stonemason has always been out of my wallet's reach.

  • @eclark1849 It's called marketing......Stonemason markets himself as worth every penny. Clearly, some people think so. I'm with you - way outside my budget and not something I can justify.

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  • Someone mentioned the 3 big yearly sales at DAZ, and yes I would buy a couple of things in the March Madness sale, and a couple of things in the PC sale, but when it came to the annual PA sale, whatever Stonemason was offering, was the only thing I purchased, because it was the only time all year I could afford any of his products. The only reason I don't still purchase his products is because he stopped supporting Poser, and do I think his products were worth every penny I had to pay for them? Yes, I did, because of the wonderful detailing he always puts into his products.

    Now, even if I currently had, and were using, the most recent version of DS, I wouldn't be purchasing them even in the annual PA sale, because they're just way out of my price range, but Stonemason, and Jack Tomlin, were my too favorite PAs, so I always looked for their goodies. I've been in the 3D universe since early 2000 when I first started playing with Bryce, but I've been fully retired since March of 2004, so it's been a long time since I've been on a tight budget as far as my purchasing of 3D items. Believe me when I say, there are a lot of things I'd like to get, but can't because the wallet, and bank account, just aren't large enough to accommodate the spending I was able to do while I was still working the first 4 years I was playing in 3D.

    Oh, and yes I blame DAZ, more than their vendors, for the pricing changes their products have gone through in the past half-dozen years or so.

  • @miss-b I will say this. There are some things I really like to buy and unfortunately, lately I just haven't had a lot of time to play with Poser like I used to. We speak of our favorite vendors, and my favorite vendors were the ones who used to specialize in a particular genre or style. Remember that I told everyone I first got into Poser to tell stories. Well, to do that I need sets, clothing, props, poses, etc. to help me do that. Like Faveral's Medieval villages. Or like I was trying to do a few months back with my Supermarket or shopping Boutique. And over time, I have spent some money buying elements of the world in which I want to tell these stories.


  • @eclark1849 One day, I'm going to finish that book. :)