Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?



  • Earl is not alone amongst folk who desire something other than another outfit. That is why Stonemason and others can charge more IMHO. There is a limit on the amount of stuff a dollie has in her closet just like a real person. Mix and match. Environments and props are a different thing.

    I am not a fan of blaming the customer for a lack of sales. I would suggest that a merchant try to sell different products if their sales are failing. 3dCheapskate has a thread on making his row of books. He has put every bit as much work into this freebie as many merchants put into their paid for paid for tops and skirts. The row of books can be used in many many more scenes that a pair of suit pants or a sun dress.

    Other people may never render an interior in their entire lives and as such never need a row of books. It is all about what an artist needs to further their vision. Not what a merchant makes in profit. The argument that Poser users don't buy what you are making is not the customers fault. Biscuits has solved the issue to some extent by having a Paetron page. Direct contact with your future and present customer base is probably worth more in the long run than the constant churn of the same product over and over again on a brokerage account that is showing 20 dresses by 20 artists on the front page of the store. Visual overload. Why spend money if everything looks similar when you hit the front page of the store?

    Most merchants make what they want to make and vilify the customer base if they cannot make enough sales to meet their goal. Make something new that people want and not just another pair of pants or leather catsuit. If one's skill set isn't up to that then spending all the money in the world on software and merchant resources won't help. If one cannot fry an egg without breaking the yolk then the best non-stick skillet made wont solve the your problem.



  • And, there you go......the primary reason Poser vendors are running right into the arms of DAZ Studio - dare to tell the truth and you rip the vendor to shreds.

    Poser vendors are just supposed to smile and say "Can I have some more abuse, please."

    Good luck with that behavior.



  • OK, folks let's just try this example. DAZ sells the same Morphing Fantasy Dress for every version of their figures. So, long time users of DS have bought this same dress for 6 generations of figures. SIX times. Same dress, just refit to a new model. And, they buy it happily.

    Poser vendors can't even sell the FIRST dress unless it's on sale for $1.50.

    Why would ANY vendor continue to beat their head against the brick wall that is the Poser customer base?

    Now, anymore questions why we continue to lose vendors to DAZ?



  • One more point and then I'm out of here for good.

    This lousy vendor who can't seem to model or rig her way out of a paper bag sure had popular freebies. It's a bit hypocritical to claim a vendor isn't any good if you have PAY for their products, but you adore their freebies.



  • I can tell you this. I did NOT pay 17 dollars for that dress. In fact, I think I finally bought it through the Platinum Club at a discount.



  • @eclark1849 I will also add that the Morphing Fantasy dress is VERY versatile. I've used it for lot's of different scenes and genres, including the Medieval scene in the image above.



  • The question was "Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?" I suggest that users will buy content that suits their needs. I also say that freebie makers put every bit as much effort into their work as some merchants put into pay for products and that they are maligned against buy some merchants as the reason they cannot get more for their product. I do not agree. I would happily pay for a product that suits my needs. I would pay 3dCheapskate for his books. They are of use to me in more scenes than yet another little black dress.

    I fail to see why DAZ users purchasing a DAZ product repeatedly for use on DAZ figures is germane to the question. If it is, then might I suggest that a merchant design for both. A well made OBJ file can be used anywhere. Hivewire3D is making a rather loyal business doing this. Stop blaming your customers for the lack of your success. People buy what they need. Not what they are told they need.



  • @parkdalegardener My store was VERY successful, FYI.

    I just couldn't take anymore customer abuse.



  • Stonemason can demand more, because he gained a reputation of providing high quality item. his items are for sure high quality and in case I am intrested, I'm happy to pay for it.



  • @masterstroke Well, that and I do think we're talking apples and oranges with Stonemason. I'd buy clothing from Tracy before I'd entertain buying from Stonemason. But I'd buy a prop or set from Stonemason before looking to see what Tracy has.



  • I think part of the issue is that many don't even know where to find products outside of the very few big brokerages we have left. Back when I was getting started, we had multiple large sites where 3rd party vendors could advertise the products we made for the software we supported. I could advertise my DS products in the DAZ forums, I could advertise my Poser products in the Poser forums and everyone benefited. It drew customers to the bigger sites because if they couldn't find something they wanted in the stores there, they could look through the forums and see what else was available. it was a "one-stop-shop". Then the attitudes changed, 3rd party vendors got locked out from the community that we helped build and lost the few places we were able to use to stay in touch with our market. Add to that a shift in the attitudes of customers (I do agree about some of the comments about customer abusiveness), and the hostility shown to one software vs the other and it's been driving vendors out in droves.

    Then there's the issue of the big brokerages and the cuts they take of sales, one thing not mentioned is that though the brokerages don't set the initial price, they do start applying price decreases over time as the product "ages", and then add to that constant sales... the big brokerages have trained the customer to shop deals and wait for discounts. This devalues the hard work of the content creators making it harder for us to make any money on our work. On a 25$ item through Rendo (for example) I'm lucky to see 3-4$ of an item sold for 25$. I spend weeks or even months working on something that I make very little return on, and that makes it very hard to want to stay in the game.

    All-in-all the community has been destroying itself due to greed and sloth and we vendors get caught in the middle taking abuses from both sides of the equation. We can't advertise our existence, we're forced to then sell through the brokerages to have any access to the community, and in turn forced to give most of the money for our hard work to someone else for little or no return on the time we have invested. It wasn't this way when I got started 10 years ago, but it has become this way thanks to the larger sites wanting to turn a profit at the expense of the very people who helped build these programs into what they became. Without content (almost all of it made by 3rd party creators), both DS and Poser would be useless, but instead of supporting the community, the large brokerages got greedy and the situation we have now is what we've been left with as a result...



  • Sorry about the double post... wanted to add this to my above but couldn't due to the time limit for editing...

    I think it's important to note that new users are especially hard to reach as they have no way to know where to look to find content outside of the 3 big sites we have left. There's also been a great deal of misinformation perpetuated by various groups that leads new users to only shop at "official" sites (the DAZ situation being a large contributor to this), and a lack of proper forum support to remove negative posts made by those who have a vested interest in spreading said misinformation. Since 3rd party content creators have no direct way to communicate with customers, new users have no way of knowing there are a multitude of resources to take advantage of. Poser vendors have particularly suffered for this, and you can't support what you don't know is there....



  • @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    OK, folks let's just try this example. DAZ sells the same Morphing Fantasy Dress for every version of their figures. So, long time users of DS have bought this same dress for 6 generations of figures. SIX times. Same dress, just refit to a new model. And, they buy it happily.

    Poser vendors can't even sell the FIRST dress unless it's on sale for $1.50.

    Why would ANY vendor continue to beat their head against the brick wall that is the Poser customer base?

    Now, anymore questions why we continue to lose vendors to DAZ?

    The odd thing is, I know Poser vendors that still make a decent amount of money.
    Vendors need a following, and that can be easy, or very hard to do at the same time.

    Constantly bringing the points up that are above, isn't building a following in any way.

    I have only ever sold one product under my user name, and I can't complain about how many sold at all.
    I have done work on products that my name is not on, and they did well too.

    What has killed Poser content sales is not so easy to answer.
    You would have to know the background, sales figures, actually work at the store, etc, to see the entire picture.

    What is easy to answer, is why most of the top selling vendors have nothing to do with the forums.



  • @theschell

    I think you've hit the nail by it's head with your description of the current problem, and how it came to this.

    However, as long as ASDXYZ and the other brokerage are ruling the market, there's little we can change for now.


    But maybe we can start with little steps?

    We now have @eclark1849's "Poser Directory" for instance.
    So whatever you create, freebie or for sale, inlude a link to that site in your download!


    If you have a website of your own,
    learn about "Robots" and how to tag your website with search terms so that everyone looking for "Poser +content +figure +prop +free +download" will be shown your website at least in the first five result pages.
    (Example: load Google and just type "sasha 16" without the "". Which site is on top?)


    Also, spread the word!
    Whenever you post in ANY Poser related forum, advertise Earl's Poser Directory, and tell them of other places where they can find Poser content.


    These are just a few things that spring to my mind.
    Not sure if they are really helpful, but just sitting here like a cony and being mesmerized by the big bad rattlesnake from "You-tar" XD isn't very helpful either (except for the snake).

    As obviously SM isn't inclined to help us by better marketing of their product, and starkly refuses(or isn't able) to support it's vendors like "the others" do, all we have left is ourselves.


    So let's pull ourselves together (sp?) and start something to be noticed again!

    Who joins?

    Karina



  • @karina said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So let's pull ourselves together (sp?) and start something to be noticed again!

    I like this.
    Let us hear your proposal.



  • Hello Frans,

    I think you're trying to push me somewhere where I shouldn't be.
    I'm no Lenin... ;)

    What I wanted to start with my above post is a discussion (maybe let's create a separate thread to not derail this one) where others can chime in with their ideas.

    Then we can discuss them, and hopefully start something new and innovative.
    The main goal should be to make > US < the #1 source for Poser content on the web.

    How we achieve this is up to us all, not to a single person who "leads the way".
    SO you's all input is needed!!

    Karina (whose family name isn't "Ulyanov")

    ;)



  • @theschell You know, you could always do something similar in this forum as far as advertising goes. We already have vendors doing something similar who are making things for PE, Raffael, Biscuits Hair, Paul and Pauline. Now, this is just a suggestion on my part, and of course the admins would have to give final permission. But maybe something could be worked out.



  • @karina said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So let's pull ourselves together (sp?) and start something to be noticed again!

    Who joins?]

    It's really simple, actually. Stop the conditioning of your customers to the fact that if they just wait long enough, they will get your products at a fire sale.

    Perfect example - Hivewire added their figures to Renderosity. When they did so, forum posts went out immediately: "Yeah, the HW figures are great, but don't buy them at Hivewire. Buy at Renderosity because they are cheaper, and if you wait for a coupon, they're cheaper yet."

    So, after years of driving traffic to the HW web site, their customers just moved to Renderosity. Waiting for a sale.

    Until that stops, you're tilting at windmills.



  • I'd asked about 3rd party advertisements back when the forums first reopened here and never received a response... Since SM has closed Content Paradise it'd be nice if maybe they could start a specific Poser Vendors forum as an official place for us content creators to advertise to the community since we can't do that elsewhere...



  • @karina said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @theschell

    I think you've hit the nail by it's head with your description of the current problem, and how it came to this.

    However, as long as ASDXYZ and the other brokerage are ruling the market, there's little we can change for now.


    But maybe we can start with little steps?

    We now have @eclark1849's "Poser Directory" for instance.
    So whatever you create, freebie or for sale, inlude a link to that site in your download!


    If you have a website of your own,
    learn about "Robots" and how to tag your website with search terms so that everyone looking for "Poser +content +figure +prop +free +download" will be shown your website at least in the first five result pages.
    (Example: load Google and just type "sasha 16" without the "". Which site is on top?)


    Also, spread the word!
    Whenever you post in ANY Poser related forum, advertise Earl's Poser Directory, and tell them of other places where they can find Poser content.


    These are just a few things that spring to my mind.
    Not sure if they are really helpful, but just sitting here like a cony and being mesmerized by the big bad rattlesnake from "You-tar" XD isn't very helpful either (except for the snake).

    As obviously SM isn't inclined to help us by better marketing of their product, and starkly refuses(or isn't able) to support it's vendors like "the others" do, all we have left is ourselves.


    So let's pull ourselves together (sp?) and start something to be noticed again!

    Who joins?

    Karina

    Banner exchanges between smaller 3rd party sites might also help a bit... "I'll advertise you if you advertise me" sort of exchanges... we should really all be helping each other out given the state of things...