What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?

  • @karina said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    Oh, and I hope it won't be that shipyard in the middle of the Utah desert who takes charge...

    I assume you're NOT referring to HiveWire 3D. Then again, they're too small a group to take on software creation/updating.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Time for popcorn !
    Att all ; WARNING and CAUTION !

    • Link only to be opened when strapped in seatbelts.
    • So hot you won't believe it was done in 2.49.
    • No clothes for miles to be seen.
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    • Steaming pressures, up to and including the BIG-BANG climax. (When you build such pressure, it has to go somewhere LOL)
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    Have a nice day all and happy Posering.

    PS; Euh, you all know that 11.1.1 is a maintenance update. Right? It's about Fixing bugs in preparation for . . . . .

    Best regards, Tony

  • @karina said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    but the posts I do read here do sound more and more like the passengers on the "Titanic" who discuss at what moment the "automatic anti-sinking" mechanics will stop the ship from going down.

    SM net losses were barbaric for a long time : $28M losses in 2013 to $7M in 2017, although it's reported it finally turned profits in 2018 - something called "non-GAAP profitability", no idea what it means. These profits are due to networking products; it's reported that networking increased revenues (over 9 months from Jan to Sep) from $11M in 2017 to $16M in 2018 for the same period, while graphics decreased from $3.5M to $1.3M for the same period.

    So, networking is selling 10x more than all graphics combined -- apparently due to this SafePass product; btw, I use it to logon in my Bank of America. Now, R&D has decreased from $21M in 2013 to $9M in 2017; so I don't hold my breath for anything revolutionary coming in.

    I fear Poser may be considered legacy by SM, not a strategic product. Maybe SM should sell the product to a smaller company that can focus on it and it alone.

    Disclaimer: all numbers are from NASDAQ Financials and SM statements.

  • I really hope to see a fuller implementation of cycles in Poser, but I doubt that will ever happen.
    I think cycles could have really helped Poser but not the half arsed version we got.

    Also, whats going to happen to cycles now that eevee is just around the corner. Would it even be worth it for Poser to pursue it or just make a deal with iray like everyone else seems to be doing?

    I'm not sensing good vibes by what I'm seeing and not hearing and the future of Poser does seem uncertain to me. However, that has been said for a long time and it's still here.

    Only time will tell I guess.

  • Edit: I wanted to add, that iclone is able to import all version of Genesis with working movement and facial animations. They created the importer that does this (so it works naturally in iclone), why can't SM do this instead of resorting to DSON?

    Hate the 2 minute window for editing, so stupid.

  • I was going to say I had a simple hope in that they fixed the universe, but then I realized how that sounded and it didn't sound simple. But I'd like to be able to select the universe and use it to make things invisible and visible again. They broke it in the last update. I'd like it fixed in this one.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    it's a bug.
    So a high probability for a fix in 11.1.1.

    Best regards, happy Posering, and good W-End to all. Tony

  • I think it's rather interesting that so many people listed improvements to Cycles/SuperFly as what they're hoping for in Poser 11.1.1. I know a large contingent of users seem to believe that Poser will fail unless it adopts Genesis and becomes a DS clone. But I've been threatening this for a while. If Poser does become a DS clone, I'm done. If I wanted to play with DS, it's free and nothing's stopping me.

  • @eclark1849, i don't think that poser user want to have a DS Clone, if that was the case, they would migrate to DS, like you said.
    I think, poser user had have done a look over the fence to other software and picked up some improvements they would like to see in poser as well.
    Im regade of the genesis plattform, it would be simpler to make them usable in poser rather to inventing the wheel a second time.
    But i would prefer a poser intern figure plattform, because i think it could be designed to make the most out of all the poser room right from the start.
    Cycles/SF was not really finished the time it was integrated into poser.
    The updates have made it better, but its to time consuming to render high quality render, let alone an animation.
    This is a vital point.
    Look at every gallery in the web, the mayority of pictures and animations are done in DS or iclone.
    If a newbee comes across one of these plattforms, he or she will ask the artist, what software was used, what does it cost and where do i get it.
    And poser is present with examples of grainy pictures or Firefly Renders with false shadows.
    Thats why poser is on the way to become obsolet.

  • @marco I think you're taking me too literally. When I say a DS clone, I mean that they want a program that does everything exactly the same way, and style as Studio does. They want Poser to convert DS files or better yet, read them natively, they want Poser to be able to use the same morphs, shaders, again, natively. While I have no problem with Studio making things easier to run or operate in Poser, I do have a problem with DAZ dictating how Poser does anything. Anymore, I suspect than DAZ wants Poser telling it how to do things.

  • @eclark1849 if i remember right, the question in this thread was, what we as poser user hoping to see in the coming release of poser.
    If a poser user wants to use the genesis plattform in poser, i would call this a customers wish.
    Daz3d has made this plattform for DS exclusive, so the ball is on SM side now.
    I would like to see a new poser genuine figure plattform, i also wish they would have look into the light system and an improvement for SF seems a reasonable thing to hope for.
    What DS wants or not is in my opinion irrelevant.
    They have there business model and SM has his... important for me as a poser user is what SM is willing to do to make me spend more money on there product.
    If there is no improvement on the issues i called for, i will search for an alternative.
    I am a customer, im not working for SM.
    I like poser, im a long time user and until PP2014 i was more than happy with poser.
    My "problems" started with PP11.
    And i hope the next version will be a better one.

  • @marco This has been said before and echoed many times. If Poser accepts the Genesis platform, it forever enslaves itself to DAZ's development timeline. No clearer picture for me has to be shown than the fact that we started with Genesis 1 and we're already up to Genesis 8. That's only been 3 versions of Poser. I know Poser and DAZ don't count versions similar to one another, but the changes would be significant.

  • @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @marco This has been said before and echoed many times. If Poser accepts the Genesis platform, it forever enslaves itself to DAZ's development timeline. No clearer picture for me has to be shown than the fact that we started with Genesis 1 and we're already up to Genesis 8. That's only been 3 versions of Poser. I know Poser and DAZ don't count versions similar to one another, but the changes would be significant.

    For SmithMicro this would mean that they have to rewrite Poser each and every time that the other company decides to release a new version of The Grey Blob (TGB), and they need frequent new version to make "their" business model work!

    Without constant "new" versions of TGB they wouldn't be able to resell ever the same content over and over just because it's incompatible with the latest version.
    Let alone all the "add-ons" you'll have to re-purchase to work in the "new" 20.852.05Beta version of the Studio...

    Their business model is simple but effective:
    They net you in with promises of "free rum for all", and once you're enlisted they'll nickle and dime you to the last shirt button.

    Does anyone really want this in Poser?
    But IF SM followed DAZ, they would have no other choice, because DAZ dictates the update speed, and all that SM could do is trying to catch up (and you can bet your butt that DAZ would cash in a hefty licence fee for every new TGB "update"!

    Why don't we just let loose the hope that TGB will ever work natively in Poser?
    When will we accept that we must build our own version of TGB?

    I (with SASHA as a stop-gap) and Erogenesis tried to help, but tbh reception was luke-warm at best.
    Instead Poser folks play with BAD figures like (..fill in any name here..) while ignoring the simple fact that all this diversification actually STOPS the development of a sort of TGB figure for Poser.
    Do you really believe that TGB would have become such a success if DAZ would have advocated that their customers still use the "Millennium" figures, V3, V4, or whatever?

    What we are lacking in Poser today is ONE go-to figure that all can accept (and it certainly isn't POSETTE!).
    But we don't have such a figure, and those that tried were mostly ignored (with some exeptions)

    And while Poser has many tools to convert clothing, poses, props, etc, from other figures, it still is a clumsy process which many "click-pose" users still abhore!
    Many just come home from work, fire up Poser, load a figure, dress and pose it, and want to have a nice render to share at the end of the day.

    They certainly don't want to fiddle for hours to make the clothing fit, struggle for more hours in the Material Room to get a decent looking skin, not do they want to wait another day for "Super"Fly to churn out a render which has less fireflies than actual pixels.
    Let's face it:

    US here, the Poser "tinkerers" are a very tiny minority stuck in a sort of comfort bubble.
    And while we discuss aetheric problems here which about 90 per cent of the newbies won't even understand by 10 per cent, they simply go the obvious, other way;

    • They see the renders made with Studio (and even without grain or fireflies - go figure!!!)
    • They read on other forums what a fantastic "platform" TGB is, and that it's the best ever invented since sliced bread.
    • They see that the program is (on first glance) FREE!
    • Last but not least, they find tons of content for TGB on "certain" sites.

    I think I can spare me the obvious final question.

    (who is still hoping the best but preparing for the worst)

  • @karina I really only disagree with one main thing you said. Are there bad figures out there? Yes. But I'm not seeing the need for the ultrabendy Mr. Fantastic-style figures everyone says they want. In fact, despite what most people complain about, what I see are content makers clamoring for ways to make clothes easier and faster, so they can fit these new figures when they first come out.

  • @karina pretty much what i tryed to say!
    So much for pointing out the problems.
    What are we going to do with this...information...data points...?

  • @eclark1849 could please explain to me what "the grey blob" tgb means?
    Seems to be an inside joke and i want to have a laugh too.

  • @marco said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @eclark1849 could please explain to me what "the grey blob" tgb means?
    Seems to be an inside joke and i want to have a laugh too.

    It's a derogatory nickname some people have given to Genesis. When it first appeared, one of it's abilities was to easily morph from humans to hulks, werecreatures, and from one gender to another with ease. I always laugh about that last one because one of the things V4 used to be able to do was morph from male to female as well. I bought a couple of those packs but didn't like them. Which is why that claim fell on deaf ears for me from Genesis. It's been awhile, but I think there were similar complaints about Genesis mainly from clothing makers who felt the underlying figures needed to be more appropriately male or female shaped, and DAZ ended up stripping that ability from Genesis. (I may be wrong about that. I'm recounting from memory and I have little to no actual experience with Genesis.)

  • @eclark1849
    Hm, thanks for helping me out.
    I think i can follow.
    The base of that nickname is that genesis started out as a unimesh...some kind of grey clump, right?
    I was aware of the fakt that V4 has this abillity too, but i never used it...can not even say why.

  • There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

  • I have to add, it just seems like a turnabout of everything that's been said before, and I'm just curious to know what's changed?
    I'm not trying to start a flame war, so please, if you don't know the honest answer, shut up and go away.