What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?



  • @eclark1849 if i remember right, the question in this thread was, what we as poser user hoping to see in the coming release of poser.
    If a poser user wants to use the genesis plattform in poser, i would call this a customers wish.
    Daz3d has made this plattform for DS exclusive, so the ball is on SM side now.
    I would like to see a new poser genuine figure plattform, i also wish they would have look into the light system and an improvement for SF seems a reasonable thing to hope for.
    What DS wants or not is in my opinion irrelevant.
    They have there business model and SM has his... important for me as a poser user is what SM is willing to do to make me spend more money on there product.
    If there is no improvement on the issues i called for, i will search for an alternative.
    I am a customer, im not working for SM.
    I like poser, im a long time user and until PP2014 i was more than happy with poser.
    My "problems" started with PP11.
    And i hope the next version will be a better one.



  • @marco This has been said before and echoed many times. If Poser accepts the Genesis platform, it forever enslaves itself to DAZ's development timeline. No clearer picture for me has to be shown than the fact that we started with Genesis 1 and we're already up to Genesis 8. That's only been 3 versions of Poser. I know Poser and DAZ don't count versions similar to one another, but the changes would be significant.



  • @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @marco This has been said before and echoed many times. If Poser accepts the Genesis platform, it forever enslaves itself to DAZ's development timeline. No clearer picture for me has to be shown than the fact that we started with Genesis 1 and we're already up to Genesis 8. That's only been 3 versions of Poser. I know Poser and DAZ don't count versions similar to one another, but the changes would be significant.

    For SmithMicro this would mean that they have to rewrite Poser each and every time that the other company decides to release a new version of The Grey Blob (TGB), and they need frequent new version to make "their" business model work!

    Without constant "new" versions of TGB they wouldn't be able to resell ever the same content over and over just because it's incompatible with the latest version.
    Let alone all the "add-ons" you'll have to re-purchase to work in the "new" 20.852.05Beta version of the Studio...

    Their business model is simple but effective:
    They net you in with promises of "free rum for all", and once you're enlisted they'll nickle and dime you to the last shirt button.

    Does anyone really want this in Poser?
    But IF SM followed DAZ, they would have no other choice, because DAZ dictates the update speed, and all that SM could do is trying to catch up (and you can bet your butt that DAZ would cash in a hefty licence fee for every new TGB "update"!

    Why don't we just let loose the hope that TGB will ever work natively in Poser?
    When will we accept that we must build our own version of TGB?

    I (with SASHA as a stop-gap) and Erogenesis tried to help, but tbh reception was luke-warm at best.
    Instead Poser folks play with BAD figures like (..fill in any name here..) while ignoring the simple fact that all this diversification actually STOPS the development of a sort of TGB figure for Poser.
    Do you really believe that TGB would have become such a success if DAZ would have advocated that their customers still use the "Millennium" figures, V3, V4, or whatever?

    What we are lacking in Poser today is ONE go-to figure that all can accept (and it certainly isn't POSETTE!).
    But we don't have such a figure, and those that tried were mostly ignored (with some exeptions)

    And while Poser has many tools to convert clothing, poses, props, etc, from other figures, it still is a clumsy process which many "click-pose" users still abhore!
    Many just come home from work, fire up Poser, load a figure, dress and pose it, and want to have a nice render to share at the end of the day.

    They certainly don't want to fiddle for hours to make the clothing fit, struggle for more hours in the Material Room to get a decent looking skin, not do they want to wait another day for "Super"Fly to churn out a render which has less fireflies than actual pixels.
    .
    .
    Let's face it:

    US here, the Poser "tinkerers" are a very tiny minority stuck in a sort of comfort bubble.
    And while we discuss aetheric problems here which about 90 per cent of the newbies won't even understand by 10 per cent, they simply go the obvious, other way;

    • They see the renders made with Studio (and even without grain or fireflies - go figure!!!)
    • They read on other forums what a fantastic "platform" TGB is, and that it's the best ever invented since sliced bread.
    • They see that the program is (on first glance) FREE!
    • Last but not least, they find tons of content for TGB on "certain" sites.

    I think I can spare me the obvious final question.

    Karina
    (who is still hoping the best but preparing for the worst)



  • @karina I really only disagree with one main thing you said. Are there bad figures out there? Yes. But I'm not seeing the need for the ultrabendy Mr. Fantastic-style figures everyone says they want. In fact, despite what most people complain about, what I see are content makers clamoring for ways to make clothes easier and faster, so they can fit these new figures when they first come out.



  • @karina pretty much what i tryed to say!
    So much for pointing out the problems.
    What are we going to do with this...information...data points...?



  • @eclark1849 could please explain to me what "the grey blob" tgb means?
    Seems to be an inside joke and i want to have a laugh too.



  • @marco said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @eclark1849 could please explain to me what "the grey blob" tgb means?
    Seems to be an inside joke and i want to have a laugh too.

    It's a derogatory nickname some people have given to Genesis. When it first appeared, one of it's abilities was to easily morph from humans to hulks, werecreatures, and from one gender to another with ease. I always laugh about that last one because one of the things V4 used to be able to do was morph from male to female as well. I bought a couple of those packs but didn't like them. Which is why that claim fell on deaf ears for me from Genesis. It's been awhile, but I think there were similar complaints about Genesis mainly from clothing makers who felt the underlying figures needed to be more appropriately male or female shaped, and DAZ ended up stripping that ability from Genesis. (I may be wrong about that. I'm recounting from memory and I have little to no actual experience with Genesis.)



  • @eclark1849
    Hm, thanks for helping me out.
    I think i can follow.
    The base of that nickname is that genesis started out as a unimesh...some kind of grey clump, right?
    I was aware of the fakt that V4 has this abillity too, but i never used it...can not even say why.



  • There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?



  • I have to add, it just seems like a turnabout of everything that's been said before, and I'm just curious to know what's changed?
    I'm not trying to start a flame war, so please, if you don't know the honest answer, shut up and go away.



  • @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

    Don't forget iclone. You can export/import any genesis figure into iclone and it will function naively. So if iclone can make an importer, why can't SM?



  • @lotharen Did iClone make the importer, or did DAZ?



  • @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @lotharen Did iClone make the importer, or did DAZ?

    iclone did, its part of their Character Creator Pipeline.



  • weather you like G3 or not, I don't care. If SM made Poser compatible with it it would at least end all these bullshit discussions about the subject.



  • @ghostship
    It's very old and worn out. Beaten to death. "TGB" has come a long way since version 1. No longer a "TGB."



  • @lotharen
    FBX is a generic format. Think of it like a TIF file is to Photoshop, or like an RTF file is to a Word Processor. It takes a lot of the features but doesn't take them all.

    FBX format is used to convert DS (Genesis stuff) and Poser (M4 and V4 only currently) content to iClone, iClone does not work directly with DAZ Studio or Poser content natively.

    Not sure about the Maya thing, as I don't have Maya to check it out. But I'm suspecting it uses FBX as a go between as well. If I am incorrect, someone please correct me. 8-)



  • As first update SuperFly to latest Blender Cycles, which means denoiser, micro displacement, portals and materials as well and agree this SuperFly needs to be updated without the question, its slower than Cycles for sure

    AMD Pro Render I would add to wishlist as many guys over here have AMD GPU and use more CPU than GPUs for rendering and AMD Pro Render is fast on CPU

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura



  • Last time I read about Iclone they do not do morphs. So anything you import is stuck at what it was when imported. So no going from a little child to a giant hulking werewolf. If that is acceptable then it should be easy to bring a Genesis figure into Poser as you don't have to worry about any morphs.



  • @deecey said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @ghostship
    It's very old and worn out. Beaten to death. "TGB" has come a long way since version 1. No longer a "TGB."

    With all due respect, I've noticed that most arguments don't start until someone comes along and starts complaining about just bringing the subject up. Things almost become a copy of one of those old TV Tropes from the 80's. Detective Whatchacallit investigates the disappearance of a young girl in her home town, but finds out the residents aren't too happy with him bringing up a subject they all want to stay dead and buried. :)



  • Despite of all the shortcomings of the Poser Cycles integration that is SuperFly, I am still deeply thankful to the folks who did that. A Poser enthusiast since day 1, I was not using Poser for years any more until SuperFly came along and with it the first photorealistic renderings. I am also thankful for allowing Firefly materials in Superfly - with some modifications, of course - that lowered the bar to make the transition.

    After almost three years in the market, it is about time now to add some of the most important improvements from Cycles into Poser. For me that would be a proper Superfly preview (without all these white textures), best case something awesome like Eevee. And, of course, micro-polygon displacement, which I love in Firefly and deeply miss in Superfly. Faster rendering speed can never hurt and there sure are some optimizations possible after all those years. A particle system would also be nice.

    I still love Poser as a tool for creating 3d images. Nothing else comes even close to its ease of use. With the content I bought and created over the years I still could spend a decade without reaching the borders of my imagination. And this is while I am still using V4 and M4. It's sad to see that the creators are moving to DAZ, but they have to follow the market. It would be a revolution for content if SM could arrange to import DAZ objects > G2. I guess that would help Poser most to have a future.