# What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?

• If the Poser cloth room does not correct for mesh size, I suggest you base any suggested settings to a 'reference' of 15 mm mesh size for a normal garment. Smaller mesh size quickly makes simulation slow. Larger mesh size tends to be too coarse with results looking rough.
15 mm is a nice average, consistent with curves of that radius.

• @bagginsbill Okay, so I'm having a "so?" moment. I understand WHAT you're saying just not WHY I would care? If I buy an outfit or dress made to be used in the Cloth room, with it's own material preset, why would I start changing the number of vertices and polygons? Everything supposed to be ready for me to use AS IS. At least, that's my way of thinking.

• But the point I was trying to make is that a preset (or setting) for a dress FAILS on the same dress if you subdivide it. The subdivided version (with higher polygon density) will appear to be less stiff / more bendy than the original. That makes no sense. But that is how it behaves - if you double the number of vertices then you double the bendiness.

Actually, it makes perfect sense why it does that.

Just about every cloth simulator out there uses the normals as the pivot for the simulation.
If you subdivide the mesh, it quadruples the total number of normals, but only doubles them in any given direction.

If you have a 4 x 4 mesh and that area can bend 30 degrees, once it is subdivided to 8 x 8, it can now bend 60 using the same normals calculations.
The same can be said for any of the parameters in the Cloth Room.
Subdividing the mesh will basically double the effect.

Could code be added to account for this? Yes, and no.
If the faces are square, or acute, or right triangles, things double out evenly.
If the are out of square, or obtuse triangles, it isn't so cut and dry to code for.
Sometimes code to account for it would work, other times it wouldn't.
Calculating it on the non subdivided, then transferring to the subdivided one, just creates more issues that it is worth.
Cutting the values in half per subdivide, well, back to the square part on that....

The only way I can think of addressing it, would be to add a few variables to the background code in the cloth room.
Top of the list would be distance between normals, to account for exactly what we are talking about.
There are a few others that would need added, depending on what direction you went from there.

That goes for just about anything that is defined in a per face way, including the Cloth Room, Physics, etc.
Changes in mesh density in a given area can mess up all sorts of things.

• I was downloading all my old purchases from Content Paradise and came upon the Cloth Room Assistant, unfortunately written for Poser 8 . There is a video with it and the author is using several of the python calls for the cloth room that do not dials in the cloth room. At some point it would be nice to have dials in the room to adjust the hidden parameters, as it appears they could make the cloth room more usable. I know there has been discussions about some of the parameters I just don't remember where.

• There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

There aren't any "native" Genesis figures for Maya, Blender, etc. They all use some sort of importer, most relying on the FBX exporter from DAZ Studio. One of the DAZ to Maya plugins creates a full version of the Genesis figure for Maya, meaning is has the full rig (including the facial rig), and all of the morphs in the original figure (including all the JCM's) for the figure to function in Maya much like it functions in DS. This of course no doubt takes quite a bit of programming to read both the original duf file(s), export/import the fbx file with the proper settings, and convert everything into terms and parameters that Maya needs. The import functions for CC3 seem a bit different though, CC3 may actually be importing the Genesis figure shape to their own figure.

Unlike what seems to be repeated over and over by some people here, Genesis figures can be used (i.e. imported) in other software without paying DAZ any sort of license fee (though you - the user - do need to have a valid license for the figure or content being imported). SM could easily do this if they wanted to. Genesis duf files are human readable just like Poser files, and rather easy to figure out. Blacksmith 3D actually reads the duf file to import Genesis figures (and of course uses the .obj referenced by the duf) with all of the morphs used on the imported figure.

The bottom line here is that if SM wanted to make an importer for DAZ figures in Poser, they could do it, but so far have opted not to. With any new version of Genesis, they would only need to update their importer. So their base software, other than the importer, would not be tied in anyway to the development of DAZ Studio or Genesis, leaving them free to design what ever functionality they desire in Poser, that could then be applied to the imported Genesis figure (similar to what it looks like Reallusion has done with CC3). Obviously not as ideal as having native support though, which may be why it hasn't happened, or possibly never will happen.

Keep in mind though, that when the figures are imported to Maya or Blender, a lot of the functionality that makes them so attractive to hobby users is lost (simple access to a huge wardrobe, props, environments, etc.).

Sorry, I don't have anything to add to the 11.1.1 update discussion. I just thought I'd answer the question above since I was bored and reading forums while adding a hard drive and re-configuring things on my computer, so I couldn't use it for much more than a web browser for a while (a couple days). However Genesis support (import), and better integration of Cycles along with a nice base cycles shader library, including skin, would make it much more tempting. Woohoo, just finished copying all the data, so back to working instead of surfing the net!

OK, I just have to add one snarky comment to respond to the snarky TGB moniker before I go away again :). Funny how TGB import is supported by, and seems to be a selling point for CC3, but the "wonderful" characters by SM aren't (but big props to Hivewire 3D for getting Dawn support in CC3).

• Of course this all relies on DAZ not going back to encrypting their content again. Being as a couple of years ago this was their big selling point to content creators to protect them from illegal downloads. So since DAZ changes direction every couple of months it makes it really difficult to plan a system to import with doesn't it. And just because today they have stopped the encrypting can you guarantee they won't do it again or have something else with the same effect?

And if they do start encrypting again how is a third party suppose to un-encrypt it without the code to do it with? And if DAZ was to allow someone else to have access to the code to de-crypt how do they prevent what happened to DVD encryption code that got out and now anyone can copy a DVD with a easy to get program.

• @richard60 may I ask if you are aware as to whether DAZ has provided unencrypted versions of the HD morphs which were previously encrypted? I enquire because I had actually made significant progress with a Python .duf/.dsf importer (eliminating the need for the DSON importer), but could not justify expending any effort on trying to decrypt the HD morphs of products I had purchased, which would continue to require DSON interaction to be usable in Poser. I halted work on the project when I determined that supporting dual quaternions in Poser would not actually provide a better rigging system, and required additional dummy joints upon which to attach the reduced cohort of weight maps that DQ rigging relies on.

• There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

There aren't any "native" Genesis figures for Maya, Blender, etc. They all use some sort of importer, most relying on the FBX exporter from DAZ Studio. One of the DAZ to Maya plugins creates a full version of the Genesis figure for Maya, meaning is has the full rig (including the facial rig), and all of the morphs in the original figure (including all the JCM's) for the figure to function in Maya much like it functions in DS. This of course no doubt takes quite a bit of programming to read both the original duf file(s), export/import the fbx file with the proper settings, and convert everything into terms and parameters that Maya needs. The import functions for CC3 seem a bit different though, CC3 may actually be importing the Genesis figure shape to their own figure.

Fair enough, then. As I've said I have little to no experience with Genesis. So the statement above was made after viewing this image on the Daz web site. I apologize for believing what I saw.

• I was downloading all my old purchases from Content Paradise and came upon the Cloth Room Assistant, unfortunately written for Poser 8 . There is a video with it and the author is using several of the python calls for the cloth room that do not dials in the cloth room. At some point it would be nice to have dials in the room to adjust the hidden parameters, as it appears they could make the cloth room more usable. I know there has been discussions about some of the parameters I just don't remember where.

A while ago I created a script EZCloth that exposed the extra params (the ones that actually made a difference after extensive testing by me and others. https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/1830/ezcloth-settings This allows you to create your own presets (with the caveats @bagginsbill mentioned)

BTW @eclark1849 you talk about buying content and it having the presets, well all my freebies that are dynamic come with pre grouped, pre paramed values, these are just added in to the pz file along with everything else.

• @eclark1849
That image you posted is really reaching,
Daz "SELLS" FBX and Maya native files
Thats pic you posted is not G8 nor does it say it is .
thats this gal here.

https://www.daz3d.com/mei-lin-fifth-avenue-outfit

https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/6/26_mei_lin_clay_26_19.jpg

• @chk2033 Reaching? Look, I've said I don't use Genesis. And looking at the image I see FBX and Maya "native Files". How am I reaching?

• @eclark1849 ,Exactly ...you dont know, yet you posted it as if to infer, then why do they have this? and how you apologize for believing in what you saw.As if what you saw wasn't true? I don't see where the fuck that says G8 on it so don't know what YOU saw.

• @chk2033 I posted what I saw. If I inferred from that that Genesis was in native file format for FBX and Maya, then, I believe that's that they wanted me to believe. Because that's the message I got from what I saw. Was it wrong? Apparently. Just tells me that DAZ should clear up their messaging. Not me.

• @chk2033 BTW I never said it was Genesis 8 specifically, just Genesis. Again, I got that impression from the images of Genesis being used in the image. So what was I supposed to infer?

• @eclark1849
Still? let me ask you something..
lets say it was G8 or G or any other flavor of those figures in that pic instead (which you thought at first) ,what was your goal to post it here after being told ,no they are not native to Maya.? Free advertising for Daz on SM's website ?
Well it worked,I myself never knew that was there until you posted that pic...and now I know, thank you.

• @chk2033 Okay? I'm not sure what this whole dustup was about now. You've kept accusing me of something that I admitted that I had gotten wrong. Now, you're upset because you think I've given DAZ free advertising? Did you not know DAZ was there, before? There's a link to their site in the Poser directory too, you know.

• Now, you're upset because you think I've given DAZ free advertising?

Your a smart guy so why would you think something like this would upset anyone...other than Smith Micro ..maybe. (And actually I'm a Vendor at Rendo and PA at Daz also so I really dont care either way )
Somethings though you just shouldn't do, (or at least find out first)
like posting about what Daz has or doesn't have (pics of their product from their page ) on here. Sure you can do whatever you want,but its in extremely bad taste to do so on this website.If I want to learn about what Daz what has new ..well I'll go to Daz not come here, when I'm trying to see about any updates on Poser's status.
And back to your upset comment, Im not like your peers,I can argue with someone all day long and at the end of the day go hang out with them,help them with something ...whatever..life's too short to hold grudges or get upset over things that don't affect you in your real life.

• @chk2033 I agree with whatever you want to say.

• @anomalaus Not having direct interaction with most of the DAZ files or program the information about them not encrypting is from the forums were it is stated they aren't doing encrypting and if they are not what is the value of DAZ connect when DIM supposedly does the same thing, just can't handle encryption. It was stated that all files that use to be encrypted are now available in an un-encrypted state. If that includes HD morphs I don't know but if it can be downloaded with DIM or manually then they should be open.

• @anomalaus Sorry for the back to back posts but I hope you finish that converter program as it would be really nice to re-extract an Obj file from the DUF files that most content is in. I have looked at the layout of DUF files and the way they store morphs and it should be easy to make a converter as long as the files are open.