What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?



  • I was downloading all my old purchases from Content Paradise and came upon the Cloth Room Assistant, unfortunately written for Poser 8 . There is a video with it and the author is using several of the python calls for the cloth room that do not dials in the cloth room. At some point it would be nice to have dials in the room to adjust the hidden parameters, as it appears they could make the cloth room more usable. I know there has been discussions about some of the parameters I just don't remember where.



  • @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

    There aren't any "native" Genesis figures for Maya, Blender, etc. They all use some sort of importer, most relying on the FBX exporter from DAZ Studio. One of the DAZ to Maya plugins creates a full version of the Genesis figure for Maya, meaning is has the full rig (including the facial rig), and all of the morphs in the original figure (including all the JCM's) for the figure to function in Maya much like it functions in DS. This of course no doubt takes quite a bit of programming to read both the original duf file(s), export/import the fbx file with the proper settings, and convert everything into terms and parameters that Maya needs. The import functions for CC3 seem a bit different though, CC3 may actually be importing the Genesis figure shape to their own figure.

    Unlike what seems to be repeated over and over by some people here, Genesis figures can be used (i.e. imported) in other software without paying DAZ any sort of license fee (though you - the user - do need to have a valid license for the figure or content being imported). SM could easily do this if they wanted to. Genesis duf files are human readable just like Poser files, and rather easy to figure out. Blacksmith 3D actually reads the duf file to import Genesis figures (and of course uses the .obj referenced by the duf) with all of the morphs used on the imported figure.

    The bottom line here is that if SM wanted to make an importer for DAZ figures in Poser, they could do it, but so far have opted not to. With any new version of Genesis, they would only need to update their importer. So their base software, other than the importer, would not be tied in anyway to the development of DAZ Studio or Genesis, leaving them free to design what ever functionality they desire in Poser, that could then be applied to the imported Genesis figure (similar to what it looks like Reallusion has done with CC3). Obviously not as ideal as having native support though, which may be why it hasn't happened, or possibly never will happen.

    Keep in mind though, that when the figures are imported to Maya or Blender, a lot of the functionality that makes them so attractive to hobby users is lost (simple access to a huge wardrobe, props, environments, etc.).

    Sorry, I don't have anything to add to the 11.1.1 update discussion. I just thought I'd answer the question above since I was bored and reading forums while adding a hard drive and re-configuring things on my computer, so I couldn't use it for much more than a web browser for a while (a couple days). However Genesis support (import), and better integration of Cycles along with a nice base cycles shader library, including skin, would make it much more tempting. Woohoo, just finished copying all the data, so back to working instead of surfing the net!

    OK, I just have to add one snarky comment to respond to the snarky TGB moniker before I go away again :). Funny how TGB import is supported by, and seems to be a selling point for CC3, but the "wonderful" characters by SM aren't (but big props to Hivewire 3D for getting Dawn support in CC3).



  • Of course this all relies on DAZ not going back to encrypting their content again. Being as a couple of years ago this was their big selling point to content creators to protect them from illegal downloads. So since DAZ changes direction every couple of months it makes it really difficult to plan a system to import with doesn't it. And just because today they have stopped the encrypting can you guarantee they won't do it again or have something else with the same effect?

    And if they do start encrypting again how is a third party suppose to un-encrypt it without the code to do it with? And if DAZ was to allow someone else to have access to the code to de-crypt how do they prevent what happened to DVD encryption code that got out and now anyone can copy a DVD with a easy to get program.



  • @richard60 may I ask if you are aware as to whether DAZ has provided unencrypted versions of the HD morphs which were previously encrypted? I enquire because I had actually made significant progress with a Python .duf/.dsf importer (eliminating the need for the DSON importer), but could not justify expending any effort on trying to decrypt the HD morphs of products I had purchased, which would continue to require DSON interaction to be usable in Poser. I halted work on the project when I determined that supporting dual quaternions in Poser would not actually provide a better rigging system, and required additional dummy joints upon which to attach the reduced cohort of weight maps that DQ rigging relies on.



  • @dustrider said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @eclark1849 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    There is something I am curious about though. I always said that Daz should have just made a native Poser version of Genesis. But that idea has always been laughed at, and it was always SM's move to make Genesis work in Poser. So maybe someone who has more experience with Genesis can tell me, why is it that there are native files of Genesis to work in Maya and FBX?

    There aren't any "native" Genesis figures for Maya, Blender, etc. They all use some sort of importer, most relying on the FBX exporter from DAZ Studio. One of the DAZ to Maya plugins creates a full version of the Genesis figure for Maya, meaning is has the full rig (including the facial rig), and all of the morphs in the original figure (including all the JCM's) for the figure to function in Maya much like it functions in DS. This of course no doubt takes quite a bit of programming to read both the original duf file(s), export/import the fbx file with the proper settings, and convert everything into terms and parameters that Maya needs. The import functions for CC3 seem a bit different though, CC3 may actually be importing the Genesis figure shape to their own figure.

    Fair enough, then. As I've said I have little to no experience with Genesis. So the statement above was made after viewing this image on the Daz web site. I apologize for believing what I saw.

    0_1545038711973_4fb390c4-e363-4b86-8935-00add3411c5c-image.png



  • @richard60 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    I was downloading all my old purchases from Content Paradise and came upon the Cloth Room Assistant, unfortunately written for Poser 8 . There is a video with it and the author is using several of the python calls for the cloth room that do not dials in the cloth room. At some point it would be nice to have dials in the room to adjust the hidden parameters, as it appears they could make the cloth room more usable. I know there has been discussions about some of the parameters I just don't remember where.

    A while ago I created a script EZCloth that exposed the extra params (the ones that actually made a difference after extensive testing by me and others. https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/1830/ezcloth-settings This allows you to create your own presets (with the caveats @bagginsbill mentioned)

    BTW @eclark1849 you talk about buying content and it having the presets, well all my freebies that are dynamic come with pre grouped, pre paramed values, these are just added in to the pz file along with everything else.



  • @eclark1849
    That image you posted is really reaching,
    Daz "SELLS" FBX and Maya native files
    Thats pic you posted is not G8 nor does it say it is .
    thats this gal here.

    https://www.daz3d.com/mei-lin-fifth-avenue-outfit

    https://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/6/26_mei_lin_clay_26_19.jpg



  • @chk2033 Reaching? Look, I've said I don't use Genesis. And looking at the image I see FBX and Maya "native Files". How am I reaching?



  • @eclark1849 ,Exactly ...you dont know, yet you posted it as if to infer, then why do they have this? and how you apologize for believing in what you saw.As if what you saw wasn't true? I don't see where the fuck that says G8 on it so don't know what YOU saw.



  • @chk2033 I posted what I saw. If I inferred from that that Genesis was in native file format for FBX and Maya, then, I believe that's that they wanted me to believe. Because that's the message I got from what I saw. Was it wrong? Apparently. Just tells me that DAZ should clear up their messaging. Not me.



  • @chk2033 BTW I never said it was Genesis 8 specifically, just Genesis. Again, I got that impression from the images of Genesis being used in the image. So what was I supposed to infer?



  • @eclark1849
    Still? let me ask you something..
    lets say it was G8 or G or any other flavor of those figures in that pic instead (which you thought at first) ,what was your goal to post it here after being told ,no they are not native to Maya.? Free advertising for Daz on SM's website ?
    Well it worked,I myself never knew that was there until you posted that pic...and now I know, thank you.



  • @chk2033 Okay? I'm not sure what this whole dustup was about now. You've kept accusing me of something that I admitted that I had gotten wrong. Now, you're upset because you think I've given DAZ free advertising? Did you not know DAZ was there, before? There's a link to their site in the Poser directory too, you know.



  • Now, you're upset because you think I've given DAZ free advertising?

    Your a smart guy so why would you think something like this would upset anyone...other than Smith Micro ..maybe. (And actually I'm a Vendor at Rendo and PA at Daz also so I really dont care either way )
    Somethings though you just shouldn't do, (or at least find out first)
    like posting about what Daz has or doesn't have (pics of their product from their page ) on here. Sure you can do whatever you want,but its in extremely bad taste to do so on this website.If I want to learn about what Daz what has new ..well I'll go to Daz not come here, when I'm trying to see about any updates on Poser's status.
    And back to your upset comment, Im not like your peers,I can argue with someone all day long and at the end of the day go hang out with them,help them with something ...whatever..life's too short to hold grudges or get upset over things that don't affect you in your real life.



  • @chk2033 I agree with whatever you want to say.



  • @anomalaus Not having direct interaction with most of the DAZ files or program the information about them not encrypting is from the forums were it is stated they aren't doing encrypting and if they are not what is the value of DAZ connect when DIM supposedly does the same thing, just can't handle encryption. It was stated that all files that use to be encrypted are now available in an un-encrypted state. If that includes HD morphs I don't know but if it can be downloaded with DIM or manually then they should be open.



  • @anomalaus Sorry for the back to back posts but I hope you finish that converter program as it would be really nice to re-extract an Obj file from the DUF files that most content is in. I have looked at the layout of DUF files and the way they store morphs and it should be easy to make a converter as long as the files are open.



  • @eclark1849
    Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, there seems to be one vendor that is selling content in fbx and Maya format content. It showed up fairly soon after the second Maya plugin.



  • @richard60 said in What are you hoping for in Poser 11.1.1?:

    @anomalaus Not having direct interaction with most of the DAZ files or program the information about them not encrypting is from the forums were it is stated they aren't doing encrypting and if they are not what is the value of DAZ connect when DIM supposedly does the same thing, just can't handle encryption. It was stated that all files that use to be encrypted are now available in an un-encrypted state. If that includes HD morphs I don't know but if it can be downloaded with DIM or manually then they should be open.

    As I understand it, Connect was designed to do two things. One was to deliver encrypted content (an "experiment" that seems to have failed, an important side note is that all of the encrypted content could be exported to un-encrypted, so it was really easy to "fix" - all of the encrypted content reverted to un-encrypted one year after release, and AFAIK there has been no new encrypted content for quite a while, there is no longer any encrypted content). The second was to make it easier for new users to install content, and to find compatible new content without leaving DS. It seems that DAZ was right, as many (most?) new users typically have no knowledge about DIM, until they purchase something that isn't Connect compatible. I never use Connect, still prefer DIM, but Connect does fit well with the way many young people are used purchasing things (in app purchases).

    The HD morphs are a completely different issue. It is a technology that is specific to DS, and only available for DAZ PA's. It's basically the ability to sculpt a sub-d mesh in say zBrush, and import that sculpt back into DS. There is no way to export the HD morphs directly to a usable figure (i.e. a rigged figure subdivided figure). However the HD morphs can be exported as an .obj, so if someone with the proper knowledge/skills wanted to, they could design an export/import process that would use the subdivided .obj as a rigged figure in Poser, or another application. But, I'm sure it would take a lot of programming because you would need to evaluate all the jcm's, weight maps, etc. and apply those to the new sub-d figure. So it is possible in theory, but in reality it may simply be too difficult to be worth the work.

    So in essence, the HD morphs aren't encrypted, it's just exporting them with a rigged mesh isn't possible (either not enabled, or they don't exist in DS in an easily exportable format). But, AFAIK, the static "sculpted" HD .obj is exportable (I could be wrong on this, because I have never tried it, but I have read forum posts that say it is possible).



  • @eclark1849 First things first, No is not Know.
    I did not noticed the error until i read you quote of my text.
    Sorry for that and for being late.
    Sometimes live happend and things get wired.
    To make my point clear, i did not wrote you are arrogant, i wrote your comment where rude and dum, because it seemes to me, there is always a negative undertone in what you are saying.
    You getting angry as soon as someone metioned Daz Studio and the Genesis Platform is a red signal to you.
    To mention the wish to use this figures in poser is obviously a kind of sacrileg to you.
    But thats not helping and that is not construktiv to solve problems, you might not have.
    The people who wrote what they want to see in the next installment of poser have workt with the program and have seen limitations they want to be overcome.
    If you are happy with the program as it is, thats fine, but not the case for any of us.
    And this attitude shows up in your post, most of the time.
    Im sure you know your poser, not questioning that at all.
    I think it would be a good thing to start a constructive conversation to make thing in and for poser better, without throwing Daz3d under the bus, at least my beloved V4 was created by them.