So, what is the state of things?



  • I hesitate to ask for fear of constant whatever, but basically I want to know about the state of Poser, or the future of.
    I continue to receive spectacular well composed emails from DAZ3d with tentilising images as spectacular as movie releases. Images of artsy models, and apparel.

    Yet I've heard nothing about Poser. I feel as if Poser is either forgotten or slowly dying amongst a constant smattering of info of which I'm not in the know.

    Are they looking to compete with DAZ3d, or is there anything hopeful happening? Futurewise, what's happening with Poser'?
    Anything? It's been a while.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    As far as I know, SM has never competed with Daz.
    Daz is for the most part a content company.
    Smith Micro is a software company.

    Oddly, people have predicted the demise of Poser for 20 years or so.
    And that has not happened.

    ...............................................................

    I know where you are coming from thou. You want to know what is next development wise.
    That has not been addressed to me, or the rest of the ambassadors for that matter.
    I'm sure that when SM is ready to tell us whatever they are going to tell us, they will.

    As far as what we do know, that is scatter in a few threads.
    They asked for system info, which tells me they want to know what versions of api's to target.
    OpenGl, etc...

    You don't really need to know api/hardware versions to target, to do a service pack.
    So there is that....



  • @nakedfunn_ said in So, what is the state of things?:

    I hesitate to ask for fear of constant whatever, but basically I want to know about the state of Poser, or the future of.
    I continue to receive spectacular well composed emails from DAZ3d with tentilising images as spectacular as movie releases. Images of artsy models, and apparel.

    I apologize for being that guy. The one who knows the actual difference between "effect" and "affect" and when to use them, but I used to be a bit of a writer. Actually, I often remind people that it's one of the things that brought me to Poser in the first place. Still, "tentilising" is not an actual word. The one you were thinking of though is a good choice, but is spelled "tantalizing".
    :)



  • See the "Poser Devlog"



  • @a_sunbeam said in So, what is the state of things?:

    See the "Poser Devlog"

    That devlog has nothing about what is coming 'NEW' to poser. Its hinting at things with no 'real' answers.



  • @eclark1849
    You are correct, I used the wrong word, but I don't mind. although it was my spell check that provided the wrong alternative.

    .



  • @shvrdavid

    I don't just believe that not competing is an option anymore. In fact the goal should be to surpass, and if that's not the current plan something is VERY wrong.

    We can blame whatever original plans, and original agreements that fell apart until the next decade but fact is there is MUCH to be done, and it is disturbing how little is being done.

    We live in a digital age in which it doesn't take long to see who's succeeding, and whose failing to meet demands. This is all alarming, to see a company allow its product to become stale, outdated. and less than practical. DAZ3d is free software (with purchased items needed), while Poser is pay for and quickly becoming impractical while vendors flock to a company with more momentum.

    Honestly this is why I believe myself, and so many are irritated - seeing something we all invested much time and money into quickly dying with no plans to become relevant to market interests, or demands.
    Censoring these forums might work in the short term , but the damage is already done with nothing new for so long to keep people interested.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @nakedfunn_ said in So, what is the state of things?:

    @shvrdavid

    I don't just believe that not competing is an option anymore. In fact the goal should be to surpass, and if that's not the current plan something is VERY wrong.

    We can blame whatever original plans, and original agreements that fell apart until the next decade but fact is there is MUCH to be done, and it is disturbing how little is being done.

    We live in a digital age in which it doesn't take long to see who's succeeding, and whose failing to meet demands. This is all alarming, to see a company allow its product to become stale, outdated. and less than practical. DAZ3d is free software (with purchased items needed), while Poser is pay for and quickly becoming impractical while vendors flock to a company with more momentum.

    Honestly this is why I believe myself, and so many are irritated - seeing something we all invested much time and money into quickly dying with no plans to become relevant to market interests, or demands.
    Censoring these forums might work in the short term , but the damage is already done with nothing new for so long to keep people interested.

    Smith Micro went thru a restructuring, and that has caused a delay. There is no arguing that.
    I do agree that the next version of Poser should far surpass the past ones, and other software as well.
    But without knowing what the next version will have that is not for me to say.
    I am not going to assume either. I also don't want Poser to turn into a $3,000 dollar program either.
    None of us know what they are doing, and assuming they are doing nothing isn't helping.

    As far as vendors coming and going, that has not changed in years.
    I have tons of content from Poser 2 up, and the majority of those vendors never went to Daz.
    20 plus years brings on a lot of reasons why. Time does that.
    People retired, people died, people went to other software platforms, etc.

    The notion that all of them are flocking to Daz, simply is not the case.
    Yes, some have. Just as others moved on to other software platforms as well.

    When I ran these forums I rarely censored anything.
    Most of the damage is from people assuming.
    I don't keep track of the forums now to know if they are censored now or not.



  • Thanks for the info. I much appreciate it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I start to cry when I look at my birth certificate . Way over 2/3 of life expectancy and getting closer to expiring date each and every day.

    Been Posering since Poser1, and bought the app over different companies ownerships longer as I care to remember. Became a beta tester/ambassador due to the sheer quantity and quality of bug reports filed over the many-many years.
    (When you care enough about an app, you want it to improve.)

    What NEVER changed over all these years was the Poser team.
    The app and the Poser team was always sold and bought as a package. (Not excluding some variations over time.)

    Larry and his team "invented/created" Poser and stayed with it during all these years and company changes.
    They "knew" the app code inside out, front to back and upside down. Filed a bug report? Answers within days (if not hrs) and a fix at the next beta if at all possible. W-Ends, holydays, nights, it did not matter, they where there.

    When SMS restructured its complete graphics department, the very knowledgeable but seen as "too expensive" Poser team did not survive the cut backs.

    Even with the correct investment in "human resources and know how", the whole department and its apps will need time to recover. Rome was not build overnight either.

    And trying to take over from a team that lived, ate, slept, and dreamt about the Poser code for close to 25 years, is no easy task. Walking on thin ice or you create more bugs then you can solve.

    See? Some don't seem to understand how complex the code actually is.
    Example : The group editor, one of the very early and most simple tools on board.
    Work on the group editor, and you have an impact all over the place.
    The setup room, the fitting room, the hair room, obj file import and export, welding or splitting, double vertex or not. All are involved and internally linked to each other.

    Many, many, many years ago,
    I was involved in another process. Who remembers Falcon4 (the flight sim?)
    When Falcon4 came out, the releasing company abandoned Falcon4.

    A group of volunteers continued development and bug fixes and formed Freefalcon.
    This continued to FreeFalcon6 under a very closed management system to protect the code.
    When that group split due to internal fights, another group took over "because they knew better", and they lost control of the code within months. => Game over, end of story. => That happens when you loose code control or try to move too fast.

    So give the new SMS/graphics department time to do things properly.
    Best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    It's like Tony said. The experienced Poser dev team was replaced - twice if I remember this right. First they were hiring a whole new team in Europe, and Rafael Torres became the new product manager, replacing Chuck Taylor. For as long as Chuck was there, things were moving very fast, with updates coming out every 2 months, and the team was very responsive. But then, restructuring came and everything went silent for a whole year. Next thing we know, there was a new team being formed in Portugal, and that's when Rafael Torres presented himself as the new product manager. That, too, didn't last long, and things went silent again.

    I don't know what happened or why, but after a long silence, I [unofficially] found out Torres was no longer the product manager. Recently we all came to know about the new dev thread announcing that Poser was resuming development again. It was read-only, so we cannot ask questions. We just know it's back into development.

    However, it is important to remember that SMS has never openly announced their plans for Poser future. It is company policy to keep everything under wraps until the last moment before release, and that's how it always was. I am not saying this is good or bad, but just that this is how it is. I am sure the community would rather SMS was more open about this, but I think it's related to how they deal with their investors, so nothing can be made public before release. I am guessing here, but this is more or less what I have heard. I suspect SMS cannot talk about Poser new features, even if they wanted to. It's the same with Corel, so this is not uncommon.



  • @vilters I absolutely concur on the complexity of the code. I've been working for quite a while on Python code which replicates as much of the library pose loading and saving functionality that the Python API supports. Accounting for all the possibilities of transform channel names, from the earliest, language-configurable resource references, to multi-byte character sets, and still allow a pose to be applied as intended, is fiendishly complicated. All those development decisions which have accumulated over time, either to maintain compatibility, or leverage a new possibility for functional expansion, that weren't envisioned when the file formats were first developed (and to my knowledge, the complete file format definitions have NEVER been officially published, only reverse engineered by enthusiasts) inevitably result in complex code.

    Even Poser's propensity for saving scene files which significantly differ from the scene loaded, despite no changes being made in the UI before saving, seems unnecessarily obfuscatory. (Just look at the order of hidden joint parameters in a figure, which seem to get reversed every time the scene or character is saved and loaded). But, presumably, that mode of operation arose at a time when Poser's internals did not give different results if the evaluation order of joint and other parameters were re-ordered, so it didn't matter then.

    Such functional oddities, which don't generally impact perceptibly on Poser's usability, except in edge cases (which are the ones I frequently run into) have an understandable tendency to linger in the code base, inevitably complicating efforts to streamline and refactor code when a core rewrite becomes necessary to implement some new, performance or functionality boosting feature.