New Figures for Poser any update?



  • @shvrdavid said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    This might sound like a really odd question.
    But why are you using the fitting room at all?

    Its dang easy bro! I use it all the time! No kidding. Its not only new, but its a faster version of the setup room, imo. Ever since I gave up the idea of wanting to control the polygroupings, and let Poser decide that, boom it was unstoppable.

    PS: there are some bugs of course... :D



  • of course maybe for vendors this might not be the most ideal solution....



  • @erogenesis That's it exactly, Ero.........JCMs should be used, for specific purposes.

    But, I will say that I see a LOT of really badly done JCMs that create a lot more problems than they solve. I THINK (please note, I said THINK) what I am seeing is DS produced JCMs that don't transfer to Poser well and haven't been double checked after the conversion process. Those JCMs do NOT transfer well, and create many more problems than they solve.

    Here's an example of a JCM gone horribly wrong.

    0_1480030638145_BadJCM.jpg

    What I will say is that JCMs have their use, but they are not supposed to be used to correct pokethrough and minor bend issues. Bulge and weight maps should be able to manage those and JCMs for extreme poses and bends, like you show in your images.


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    @erogenesis Yes it is easy to use the fitting room, no debating that.

    But there are other ways.



  • @Glitterati3D said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    @erogenesis That's it exactly, Ero.........JCMs should be used, for specific purposes.
    Here's an example of a JCM gone horribly wrong.

    0_1480030638145_BadJCM.jpg

    Yep that looks like crap, but we could say the same of UV maps done bad, morphs, or even WM for that matter. JCMs is just one of those options that can help make a 3D product look good, but like everything else it is also subject to the producer's abilities / style.

    @shvrdavid said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    @erogenesis Yes it is easy to use the fitting room, no debating that.

    But there are other ways.

    It might not be ideal for vendors perhaps. For comic work its real useful.



  • Actually, I think that something like 95% of everything that my girls (and dudes) wear in my renders (if they are wearing anything...) has gone through the fitting room, even the stuff I make myself. I add my own morphs later, and the mannequin add the clothing-style morphs for me (like cloth suspended between boobies).

    There might be a better way, perhaps, but this sure as heck works for me.


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    It works but it's not redistributable. Anything created in the fitting room is for your use only. Because the geometry that comes out of the fitting room is not the same geometry that went into it. It's a clone of the original, fit to the new form and regrouped.

    My solution (theoretically) is to redesign the fitting room so that it creates fit morphs for the new figure, with a new clothing rig to match that new figure. This way the rig and the morph is redistributable because there is nothing being distributed from the original piece of clothing. Yes, you can do it manually, but that would be much more time consuming and cumbersome, and then what is the point of having the fitting room in the first place? It should be a tool to ease the creating and adaptation of new and existing content. Something that both content artists and end users can take advantage of.

    This would potentially help to lessen the burden of a new figure requiring dozens or hundreds of pieces of add-on clothing at initial release in order for the figure to gain interest, as Tony suggests.

    But again, it is not so much about a new figure not having a department store's worth of clothing to accompany its launch, so much as it is the fact that a new figure does not offer any advantage over any of the existing figures, namely V4/M4, with all their add-ons. When designing a figure you have to also make it easy for content artists to create clothing and other add-ons for it. Complicated rigging will push most of them away. Too many jcms will push most of them away. End users don't care about jcms. It's the content artists that dread them. If they were easier to work with during the creation of content then it would be much better, but that is something that only poser can solve, not the figure artist.

    A new figure has to offer something substantially better than previous offerings. Lack of initial content is not as significant as lack of new functionality. Its that new functionality that is missing from all figures, including those not yet released, because the tools to create that new functionality do not exist in the software.



  • I would rephrase that and say that any new figure should fit into the needs of the people that use them. Of course this could mean it has to do anything their current figures can do, but then better... or is it? Things like V4's eyebrow were clearly flipping useless. I'm changing up the UV layout a little. This lack of genitals is also kind of pert and childish. I'm also taking a step away from this lo-poly trend, I really don't see the point after having used V4 all these years without much of a problem in that regard, in fact she had too little. I'm borrowing ideas from Dawn and G3, ignoring other ideas.

    I think a lot of figures have come into the world without a purpose, or perhaps with an unrelated purpose: to make cash, to be famous, to have a technical achievement?. IMO you're just asking for trouble. Pauline is a good example of this. Launched into the world on a whim, probably purely because it was expected of Poser to do so. Dawn was a very good effort, but even with her I didn't fel like she could slot directly into my workflow, or anyone else's for that matter. Genesis on the other hand did exactly that. It was plug and play. And that's what a figure needs to be: pret-a-porter, ready to go, ready for action.

    Its like the modelling department over at Pixar, they make figures to fit into a pipeline, and they LISTEN to the animators and producers requests, and tailor-make it for that purpose, with everything rigged and attached. I do that too, my Erogirl figure goes through a rigging session every month or so, corrections I list on sorting out with the intent of readying her for comic work. the girl needs to be ready for work! lol

    I see my future customers as the animator department over at Pixar. I am making a figure they can use to do their job. The only difference is that I am also part of that crowd. I think that is the only formula for success here.


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    @erogenesis said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    Actually, I think that something like 95% of everything that my girls (and dudes) wear in my renders (if they are wearing anything...) has gone through the fitting room, even the stuff I make myself. I add my own morphs later, and the mannequin add the clothing-style morphs for me (like cloth suspended between boobies).

    There might be a better way, perhaps, but this sure as heck works for me.

    It makes sense to use the fitting room if your doing a lot of scenes.



  • @AmbientShade poser and third party apps have certainly helped make refits much more accessible however what is really needed is not easier refitting tools, but tools/features that would allow distributable refits. Not sure if it's technically possible or not but if poser, or a third party app, could write a file that could be legally distributed to one-click convert clothing items at a high level of quality that would open up the figure market substantially and create a possible 'refit artist' market.


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    @KittyBrown said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    Not sure if it's technically possible or not but if poser, or a third party app, could write a file that could be legally distributed to one-click convert clothing items at a high level of quality that would open up the figure market substantially and create a possible 'refit artist' market.

    That's what I was trying to describe. The only way to make refits legally distributable is to do them as morphs. Anything that includes any of the original geometry would be a copyright violation.


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    Before Vilters gonna throw a fit again about downvoting.
    I did because my purpose was to motivate figure developers with this thread and not demotivate, for example that JCM's are bad <<< they are not bad in fact they are handy.
    Whats not handy is a figure without ears and sewed on boots.


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    @AmbientShade said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    Basically at this point, after spending a lot of time analyzing the current state of things, I don't see where any new figure can provide anything new over what V4WM, combined with a selection of various add-ons, already provides. This is the biggest reason why, in my opinion, none of the other various figures have caught on to any significant degree. Why invest in an entirely new wardrobe for a new figure that doesn't do anything substantially different than what is currently available?

    I could say a lot more but I won't publicly. I'll just wait to see what significant advancements, if any, Poser 12 offers to content creators.

    I disagree Ambient, cause I've seen your topology on your figures and they are far superior in muscle flow.
    Which results in absolutely realistic morphing.

    Please get them off the dusty shelf and make them work, cause it's too good to be wasted.

    And now with VWD dynamic clothes and hair, we can recycle all the clothes we want.


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    @Biscuits
    I have the highest respect for your honesty.

    I have no problem with downvoting as long as it is motivated, in my face, and justified.

    I hate downvoting, when it is unjustified, behind my back without justification, or to defend the undefendable.

    As for my own figure?
    The ears are back but the hair and boots are there to stay.
    There will be multiple fully clothed versions with a common center core.

    As an example : These "boots"? Make great socks.
    As a second example? That hair? Has many versions.

    I applaud each and every new figure and there is a big difference between "bashing" and pointing out the obvious things that should never have passed a beta cycle.

    Best regards, Tony


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    @vilters said in New Figures for Poser any update?:

    As a second example? That hair? Has many versions.

    Well about that, my hairs have many variations, many uses, many morphs and thus many styles but one hair cannot offer every single style.
    The weight of the morphs alone is heavy.

    For example long hair needs more density to bend well, if you have a straight base but want morphs that make it curly, you need to plan extra density in to give it a smooth angle.

    And then there is usability, wet hair, hanging upside down hair, laying on a pillow hair.
    Making hair is planning ahead.

    But above all it's fun!



  • @AmbientShade
    It would need to be a single file that applied the morph for shape, regrouping information and the rigging for the target figure. Just transferring the fit and relying on autogrouping and auto rigging does not give a high enough quality result to make clothing usable at a quality level required to support an alternate figure.
    To me, this is the sort of value added feature that is in line with what poser is all about and has always given it a leg up over the free DS application


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    @KittyBrown Correct. It would be a lot easier if Poser dropped the need for groups all together and went full unimesh, which is a long-standing request, one among many. Then Ironed out the shape transfer so that morphed clothing doesn't come out so mangled. More control features are necessary to be able to keep shapes of things like buttons during the transfer, similar to how we have soft and rigid decorated groups in the cloth room. Dynamic tends to look better but conforming is still the dominant clothing most people buy since it is easier to work with and doesn't require simulations to get to the intended stage.



  • Yes, a full unimesh for Poser figures would be great in many aspects.

    The problem in the cloth room, in my opinion, is that for complicated clothes, the time to get the simulation is very long.



  • I second Biscuit's request for Ambient to not leave his figures on the dusty shelf. Get them out and then bring out an update as a result of all the feedback etc.
    Love esther



  • yeah at some point you just need to let go and release it. I'm finding it hard to do that with PE because I had many more plans for her rig. But I think she'll probably do quite fine the way she is now, with one or two small changes.

    I've settled on the idea of throwing her into the world with version 2 in mind. So any issues with this version will get improved in the next version, and I'll promise that I'll maintain the same topography so that nobody needs to re-buy a whole new wardrobe like with DAZ... if PE is at all successful that is...

    It might put vendors under pressure to start making new stuff instead of the rehashing the same old content. Vendors will probably become the fashion designers for 3D figures!

    VWD is indeed another way to recycle clothing, and probably great for making morphs for clothing or even to refit them!, but its definitely not practical for comic production. I would still need conforming clothing for that.