Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Ach, that time out.

    One can use an extremely complicated or a Stupid Simple node structure?
    The end result is ALWAYS the same. => A single RGB value for each pixel to render.

    All nodes do is add, remove, add, remove, add, remove until you have that single RGB/Pixel value.



  • @vilters said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    See?
    I participated a lot in examinations, jury's , where people had to read questions and then had to give answers.
    90% of the problems start with people NOT reading or UNDERSTANDING the questions or tasks or instructions properly.

    Poser11 started and came out with FireFly and SuperFly. (and a couple more, but let's stay on track here.)

    FROM THE VERY START => EVERYBODY was VERY clear about SuperFly "being based on" and having the possibility to use "most" of the Cycles engine nodes.
    Never-Ever in any way, form, or shape, did any of the team or ambassadors pretend that SuperFly was equal to Cycles; It is not, and that has never been its purpose either.

    While I hate to make it sound like I'm calling anyone a liar, Tony, as they say a lie of omission is still a lie. I don't think anyone was lying but you're certainly making it sound as that was the intent all along.

    The thread that Nerd3D started is still alive on Rendo so anyone can go and read what the intent was. And you are right, SuperFly was presented as "based on Cycles". So far though, I'm having difficulty finding eactly where the point of having the possibility to use "most" of the Cycles engine nodes. was discussed.



  • Also, I know I seem to be the only person who views this negatively. And f that's the case, then obviously those missing nodes don't mean that much to many people. Apparently, just to me. But as I have stated, I do get around online. I search the web looking for places to add to my Poser directory. And I have found places that make props and objects with Blender, using Cycles, and they even give out freebies that Poser can import and use. I don't include them because Poser can't read .Blend files which almost all the files are in. And even if, as I do, you have Blender and can open the .Blend files, they often contain nodes which are missing in Poser, so you can't quite rebuild the shader.



  • @eclark1849 I haven't done enough "comparing" between Cycles and SuperFly, but the one node I'd really like to see in SuperFly is the Principled BSDF shader. This, however, is relatively new to Blender with version 2.79b, so I can't blame the SM team for not including it.

    That said, however, I'd LOVE it, if it were included with Poser 12. ~wink~



  • @miss-b said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @eclark1849 I haven't done enough "comparing" between Cycles and SuperFly, but the one node I'd really like to see in SuperFly is the Principled BSDF shader. This, however, is relatively new to Blender with version 2.79b, so I can't blame the SM team for not including it.

    That said, however, I'd LOVE it, if it were included with Poser 12. ~wink~

    Actually, Ghostship's Ubershader is a good work around for the Principled BSDF shader. I've made other references in this forum to the missing nodes, so if I can find the links, I'll post one for you, so you can read my concerns.



  • @eclark1849 Yes, I have his Shader set, and yes I like it as well.



  • @miss-b If we spend any time "on cycles", we'd be spending that time making it more of a module and less of an embed.



  • @h-elwood-gilliland I'm not thinking of the whole Cycles system in Poser. What I was hoping for was another SuperFly node like the new Principled BSDF node in Cycles. I can certainly understand not wanting to transplant the whole Cycles system into Poser.



  • @miss-b I realize that, what I'm saying is, wouldn't it be nice to see a way to use any arbitrary version of cycles or blender directly via Poser's Render Settings? Maybe there is an open ended way of doing this.. no promises, but I'll keep it in mind.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @h-elwood-gilliland said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @miss-b I realize that, what I'm saying is, wouldn't it be nice to see a way to use any arbitrary version of cycles or blender directly via Poser's Render Settings? Maybe there is an open ended way of doing this.. no promises, but I'll keep it in mind.

    This would work for me. :)



  • @miss-b said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @h-elwood-gilliland I'm not thinking of the whole Cycles system in Poser. What I was hoping for was another SuperFly node like the new Principled BSDF node in Cycles. I can certainly understand not wanting to transplant the whole Cycles system into Poser.

    Hmm, I don't know, maybe I'm using Google translate or something. Seems everytime I post about Cycles upgrades people think I'm talking about upgrading to the latest version in Blender. All I've ever asked for were the nodes missing in the version of Cycles that Poser first came with.

    There were just six node types and six nodes missing:
    Texture nodes:

    Procedural
    Point Density

    Color Nodes:

    RGB Curves

    Vector Nodes:

    Vector Curves

    And Converter nodes:

    Color Ramp

    RGB to BW

    But all I seem to keep hearing is "We're not going to be working on Cycles any more in Poser." Did I miss something?



  • @eclark1849

    I'm not trying to claim that I know anything about why the nodes you listed were not included initially in Poser, but it may be that there were limitations in translating them into Poser-speak.

    Out of curiosity, I just looked at the Blender 2.8 manual in regards to Cycles node support for Eevee, which (according to the manual) is largely based on Cycles. But there is a list of several Cycles nodes that are either not supported at all, or only partially supported when rendering with Eevee in Blender.

    Just saying that sometimes it's not easy to transfer node support from one render engine to another, and even Cycles to Eevee is going to have some limitations.



  • @deecey said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @eclark1849

    I'm not trying to claim that I know anything about why the nodes you listed were not included initially in Poser, but it may be that there were limitations in translating them into Poser-speak.

    Out of curiosity, I just looked at the Blender 2.8 manual in regards to Cycles node support for Eevee, which (according to the manual) is largely based on Cycles. But there is a list of several Cycles nodes that are either not supported at all, or only partially supported when rendering with Eevee in Blender.

    Just saying that sometimes it's not easy to transfer node support from one render engine to another, and even Cycles to Eevee is going to have some limitations.

    I just checked the last update sheet and according to it, as of SR4, at least :
    Final Rendering
     SuperFly: Now based on Cycles 1.7.
     SuperFly: Orthographic cameras now work correctly.
     FireFly: Corrected shading of PhysicalSurface for lights with disabled shadows.
     Fixed case where drag &drop of library item would cause instability while add-on was
    active.

    Also Blender 2.8 is still in Beta, so I haven't bothered to download it yet. Also I recall Stefan Werner saying that they just didn't have time to make that one node work before it was released.



  • @eclark1849

    Cycles Node Support in Eevee

    The point I was trying to make is it's not always easy to convert nodes from one rendering engine to another, that's all.



  • @ghostman said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @h-elwood-gilliland said in Just a gripe about an 'enhancement'.:

    @miss-b I realize that, what I'm saying is, wouldn't it be nice to see a way to use any arbitrary version of cycles or blender directly via Poser's Render Settings? Maybe there is an open ended way of doing this.. no promises, but I'll keep it in mind.

    This would work for me. :)

    For me as well. ~wink~



  • For anyone looking for a simple, interim solution to batch rendering images in QueueManager with Poser Pro 11.1.1.35510, here's a simple Python script which will prompt the user for a destination folder and base filename, then render the frames selected in the Render Settings Movie tab in the queue, in the absence of a button to do that directly from the UI. It defaults to save individual PNG files at the moment, since Poser's Python API doesn't expose the SaveImage file type chooser with the list of available image types.

    If anyone's desperate for such a feature, let me know and I'll see what I can do. If you change the ".png" Image File extension in the dialog to one of the other accepted file formats (PNG, TIF, BMP, TGA, JPG, PSD or EXR), it should use that (the extension is case insensitive).

    Select, copy and save the code below as MovieRenderToQueue.py somewhere in your Poser Python hierarchy.

    # MovieRenderToQueue.py
    # (c) 2019 an0malaus
    #
    # Since PoserPro 11.1.0.35510 removed the RenderToQueue button from the MakeMovie dialog, replace its functionality.
    # This is still possible, since the poser.Scene().RenderToQueue() method still includes the isMovie flag.
    #
    # v1.0	20190206	Initial version. Prompt user for file path to save the rendered movie or image files.
    #					Initially defaults to PNG image files as Image file type picker is not exposed to Python yet.
    ########################################################################################################################
    
    version = '1.0'
    debug = False
    fileExtFmt = '{}.{}'
    defaultFile = 'Untitled'
    imageExt = 'png'
    isMovie = 1
    
    import poser
    import os
    from string import upper
    
    scene = poser.Scene()
    mov = scene.MovieMaker()
    width, height = mov.OutputRes()
    start = mov.OutputStartFrame()
    end = mov.OutputEndFrame()
    path = scene.DocumentPath() or fileExtFmt.format( defaultFile, imageExt ) # Protect from unsaved scene returning None
    path, ext = os.path.splitext( path )
    path = os.path.extsep.join(( path, imageExt ))
    if debug:
    	print 'Path default {}'.format( path )
    	print 'Render width = {}, render height = {}'.format( width, height )
    	print 'Start frame = {}, end frame = {}'.format( start+1, end+1 )
    getImageFile = poser.DialogFileChooser( type = poser.kDialogFileChooserSave, \
    										message = 'Render ({}x{}) Movie Images To Queue for frames {} to {}:'.format( \
    																	width, height, start+1, end+1 ), startDir = path )
    if getImageFile.Show():
    	path = getImageFile.Path()
    	ext = path.split(os.path.extsep)[-1:][0] # Just the last one in case path contains multiple extension separators
    	if debug:
    		print 'Returned path "{}"'.format( path )
    	print 'Rendering Movie frames {} to {} to Queue as ({}x{}) {} images.'.format( start+1, end+1, width, height, \
    																										upper( ext ) )
    	scene.RenderToQueue( path, width, height, isMovie )
    ### END ###
    

    Don't forget to setup the Movie frames, renderer and Image Files selection in the standard dialog, first.



  • Send an email to support and they'll give you a hack. The button will be back in your hands. (Regarding: Send To Background / Send to Queue)



  • @anomalaus

    Thank you very much.



  • The Send Render To has been put back in and is now live.
    The version is 11.1.1.35540, Only for Poser, QM, Updaters Win/Mac. Rest all are 11.1.1.35510



  • @h-elwood-gilliland Thank you very much :)