A very simple rigging issue

  • Hi there, poser people.

    I never messed around with rigging, up until now.

    I have what should be an extremely simple task. I got a tweezers prop, and I wish to enable it to open/close just a bit (like in real life).

    this is the object:


    I followed chuck's tutorial (renderosity), went to the setup room, and created two bones. one = base, second = pincer 1:


    Then, I used the grouping tool to apply specific polygons to the bones:
    pincer 1:

    now I leave the setup and go back to pose. the "pincer 1" bone won't move the selection - but bend/twist the connecting polygons between base and pincer 1, and the "base" will practically break the mesh:

    what am I missing?

    oh, and when I get back to the setup room, to try to fix things, half of my prop(now figure...) - the "pincer 1" one, is missing completely:


  • Looks like you skipped the weld step after making the groups. The bone names have to the same as the groups as well.

  • @shvrdavid I'm sure I tried with the welding...going at it again. do I need to weld just each bone/group, or also the entire prop as a whole?
    the group and bones names are the same :)

  • Okay, I used the welding option properly, now (I think...):

    still, the top part pulls also the bottom part (which got a separate group/bone of it's own):


    also, the bottom part breaks the mesh, even though it's welded and I didn't missed any polygons:


  • Check to see if bend is turned on, on the joints

  • I'm gonna find me a horse
    Just about this big
    An' ride him all along the border line

    With a
    Pair of heavy-duty
    Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
    Every other wrangler would say
    I was mighty grand

  • Would such model not need 3 bones?

    • base
    • pincer 1
    • pincer2
      if you close the pincer, the legs will both move and the base will stay in place for reasons of symmetry.
      There would be no need to group the model. Just ensure that all vertices are part of group 'base'.
      Then paint the vertex weights for the rotation (x,y or z) whichever is the prime rotation axis, of pincer 1 and pincer2.
      If you do not give vertex weights for the other directions, you will not have problems with the pincer legs going in stray directions either. You then esentially make pincer1 and pincer2 'ghost bones', same principle as is applied in modern figures for the face for example.
      Grouping is/was a simple way of grouping and to say the vertices have a weight 1.0 for all rotations of bones of higher order in the hierarchy. If you want to model a full figure without grouping the model can become very heavy on defined vertex weights but for this simple model it will work perfectly well.

  • @f_verbaas

    let me see if I got you right...

    I did created 3 bones, just as you mentioned. but from the tutorial I got the impression that I must apply polygons to bones, otherwise nothing will move in the mesh according to the bone, no?

    so you say I need to created my bones and skip all the grouping phase, and only have my entire mesh grouped as one? what do you mean by paint the vertext weights for the rotation of pincer 1/pincer 2? isn't that just what I did in the grouping tool? sorry for the question - this stuff is really new for me (and I'm working with poser for 10+ years...kinda funny, I know).

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Easiest thing to do on a thing like this is to make a morph that lets it open and close. 1 Dial to rule them all. :D

  • @gsfcreator
    You are right.
    Grouping comes in as a shorthand method to assign vertices to bones. In Poser rigging child bones affect the polies of their parents, so need no atttach any polies to the end bones, unless you want to be able to select them.
    Grouping comes in only if your hierarchy is more than 2 levels. You can therefore keep this model simple.
    You need to separate between the legs of the pincher though.
    You can do this by setting the limit indicators, by adding falloff zones, or by weight mapping.
    For how to do this see the Poser manual.

  • @f_verbaas this is all new stuff for me...I'll dig in. what you say doesn't sound simpler than creating bones and adding polygon groups to them, though I trust your word :)

    @Ghostman what do you mean? this is a mesh without any movement abilities. in order to create that morph - I must create bones/apply polygons to them, OR use the morphing tool (which I trying, to no avail...every single tool there that I tried bends the mesh/twist it in a wrong way...but again, I'm probably doing something wrong so I'll be happy to hear your advice! :) ).

    I also thought about using a magnet...

  • @gsfcreator You can do the movement in your modeling application, then load that morphed obj as a Morph against the prop (Load Morph Target) That way you don't need to make this a figure at all, just leave it as a morphable prop.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @gsfcreator What amethyst is saying. Get back to your modeler and then you do a minor open bend on the mesh
    then export that one out. In poser you can Load Morph Target when the prop is selected and then point to the newly exported mesh you tweaked in your modeler. Now you get 1 dial that you can set to minus 1 or + 1. Now you have it open and close. ;) Far easier and faster than rigging a prop like that.

  • @ghostman Guys, I did not modeled this pincers/tweezers...I never modeled anything in my life :) I used to simply buy-and-drop what I needed into poser, and focus on creating (comis/animations). lately, I started to dive deeper and messing around with texturing, etc. I've purchased SILO, but lets just say learning how to model is far down my priority list.

    so...I have even less knowledge in modeling, at the moment.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @gsfcreator Ahh ok. Well then you can use the magnet to make the morph. You could export it after using the magnet and then reimport it and use that as a morph target.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    To do it with a magnet is siimple:
    Open group editor with the pincer selected. Now make a new group with the vertices you want to move (do NOT assign it a material). Close the group editor. Load a magnet on the pincer. Move the magnet zone over the pincer part you want to move. Now in the magnet properties set a restrict to that new group you just created. You can now move the magnet with translate and the pincer part will move. When you find the correct position, spawn a morph.
    Delete the magnet and you have a morph which can open the pincer.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Aint it wonderful how many different ways one can go for making a simple thing like this. :)

  • @ghostman yes, indeed. Tweezers fall into that sweet spot where the small angles involved in their normal range of movement allow linearly interpolated morphs to accurately represent those movements.

    Prior to the group editor and morph splitting features, it was sometimes difficult to arrange a single magnet zone to discriminate between closely adjacent parts of an object. Additionally, such a relatively simple object provides a great project for practising rigging techniques, with only a two-level actor hierarchy.