Perfecting a Project Evolution Character...

  • Hi folks,
    So, pretty much as soon as I got PE, I set about recreating my #1 V4 character with it... Annie! I reached a point where I couldn't see how to improve her and decided to try Biscuits Faces & Features, but there's still something not right. I think she has too much 'cheekiness' to her face, but I'm not sure. When I apply smiling morphs, the cheeks seriously burst out like mad, which is not Annie at all, it's quite alarming, lol!
    Could folks with experience of PE character creation please advise me on what to do with the figure to make her look as close to identical to V4's Annie in the face? I'm quite satisfied with the look of her body, generally, so that's not such an issue, just the face.
    V4 Left - PE Right




  • @glen85 can you post some profile and 3/4 comparisons as well?

    I noticed when I applied @erogenesis ' Lali morphs to V4 that her smiles and cheeks went very wide, in relation to the teeth. When I try to smile (having covered all the mirrors in the neighbourhood first), I find that the corners of my lips follow the profile of my teeth, rather than going out to the side so much. Applying the same correction to the Lali based smile blend morphs I was using gave a much more realistic (to my jaded eye) appearance than the Lali morphs alone. Short of hooking my fingers into the corners of my mouth, I can't personally make my smile that wide.

    None of this is meant as criticism in any way of Lali or PE figures. Head-on, they look just fine, but at full stretch, the smile starts to have that head-out-of-the-car-window-at-high-speed look. Try applying some adjustments which pull the corners of the mouth back closer to the teeth.

    V4 with Lali Smile Only
    0_1548511317132_Screen Shot 2019-01-27 at 12.59.44 am.png

    V4 with Blended Lali Smile
    0_1548511332404_Screen Shot 2019-01-27 at 1.00.52 am.png

    V4 with Blended Lali Smile and Cheeks Tense (pulling corners of mouth closer to teeth)
    0_1548511348025_Screen Shot 2019-01-27 at 1.01.24 am.png

  • Thanks for that! Lol, yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head there! So, is this something that would need to be done every time I make her smile, or can I somehow link all of these tweaks to the smile morph itself? I've never tried to do such a thing before, so I've not a clue!
    Poser and my PC are squabbling again at the moment, so I'll get to the comparisons as soon as I can. I'm aware that the eyebrows are different, I preferred the more natural 'unplucked' look, but also had great fun (sarcasm) trying to get the brows of the V4 skin to line up. I have applied these more natural brows to the V4 skin, so could do some comparisons with that, if needed... when Poser actually lets me do anything.

  • @glen85 absolutely. All of the morphs that you see on the right of the lower two renders are just master valueParms which dial in various combinations and strengths of actual morphs. I have had to actually create a substantial number of my own magnet or morph tool derived morphs for V4 in the quest to create acceptable representations of celebrities, with modest success.

    I'm using the V4 skeleton within V4 to inform me of realistic morphing limits, to the extent that I often have to actually morph the skull to match some of the head shaping morphs and avoid poke-through. I reckon the Lali character would be absolutely fine if the underlying teeth were significantly wider (I mean the line of the teeth, not the individual teeth)

    Here's an example of a control parameter driving several morphs:
    0_1548512312090_Screen Shot 2019-01-27 at 1.17.34 am.png

  • That all seems very clever, very involved and very scary. >.>

  • @anomalaus said in Perfecting a Project Evolution Character...:

    [...] I reckon the Lali character would be absolutely fine if the underlying teeth were significantly wider (I mean the line of the teeth, not the individual teeth) [...]

    @ anomalaus:

    So why don't you make the maxilla and mandibula wider?* Simply crank up the xScale to, let's say, 120% on both jaws!
    (b.t.w., the fault lies with V4 here, not Lali in particular)

    Regarding the "perfect smile" morph, it might be a good idea to split this up into two separate morphs:
    One which pulls the mouth corners sideways, and another which pulls them backwards. Now applying them at varying ratios gives you much more control and also circumvents the fact the morphs act linearly.
    Finally split it up into separate r/l subset and add master dials for the smile /all/left/right.

    @ Glen85:

    Transforming an existing character to a different figure is almost impossible, especially if you have long-term favourite characters of whom you know every single wrinkle...

    It starts with the texture, which accounts for almost 70% of a character's facial likeliness; so this is the hardest challenge.

    Next comes the head and face shape:
    If you're lucky, your new figure has enough morphs to get an approximation of your source figure's face shape. The fine tuning can only be made with extensive use of the Morph Brush: Pull here, push there, inflate/deflate, smooth - experiment!

    Best to place the original figure AND PE so that both heads are in the same place. Now morph PE's mesh to follow your source figure's mesh as closely as you can.
    Don't morph the eyes!
    Only the eyelids, and then reposition the eyes by the translation dials!
    (Same applies to other "head" parts like jaws, teeth, tongue! Make them invisible before you start your morphing session: like this they won't be affected by the Morph Brush)

    Finally, hair:
    Hair is an important part of a personality, so make sure to modify/tweak it's fit to match the original as closely as possible!
    A higher hair line, a different drape, volume: all this can spoil your work more than any effort to get the face right.

    And only if these preliminary steps are to your satisfaction should you start dialing the BODY shape.
    This can be as challenging as the face too, especially when it comes to more than the "vanilla standard" body shape.
    But from what I see here most of the time, most people prefer to render some clothing with a head on top, so this could be a mute point for most.

    • Which gets us back to the beginning about the importance of the face/head! -

    The attached comparison was DIALED in (no Morph Brush used) as best I could with PE, and apart from the non-matching texture you can immediately spot the differences in the skull shape (PE's skull is "rounder" than V4's)

    0_1548785849600_Katya V4 to PE.JPG

    Also the general face shape is more on the chubby side, and it's bloody hard to morph that away.
    That's why I always advocate that a base figure should be as neutral as possible:
    You can easyly ADD almost anything with morphs, but it's bloody hard to REMOVE such baked-in features. And that's why most PE renders look like - well: PE/Lali.

    You know, there's a reason why I made SASHA-16 and intend to stick to it for the next years!

    Good luck mate!


  • @karina I would have done that (and already have those morphs available on the underlying V4 Skeleton figure), but I was trying to match a 3/4 profile picture, which showed that widening that part of the cheek/jaw/teeth was not the best match, but moving the lip/mouth corners back was the required solution.

    The split of orthogonal movements into separate morphs is exactly what I've ended up with. The blending of multiple, internally consistent sets of facial morphs from different vendors just highlights the alternative paradigms such morphs are created within. When the paradigms clash, it sometimes requires the conflicting morphs to be deconstructed into simpler components (like splitting a single morph into it's pure X, Y and Z-only components) and recombining them in different proportions.