New La Femme Base Figure for Poser 11 Now Available
@qazart Play with it! :D
Following @Deecey's suggestion about chips, I went into those. The best results I've gotten so far is to use morphs very sparingly or not at all for expressions and to go for the chips, using dials. With 6 dials per chip, and quite a few facial chips, there is, of course, a lot that can be done, and that should be done, for each expression. And by "a lot" I mean a dizzying amount.
I probably should have paid more attention to the parts of the videos where it was mentioned that "chips are for expression, morphs for shape. And this mean YOU, squid brain." Maybe not the exact term "squid brain". But it was certainly implied. Also, why the orange dials are different. A comma and "doofous" seemed to be implied there.
The biggest downside so far with the chips is no quick symmetry. I think this might have been touched on in the afore mentioned "squid brain" video. Obviously, a script can do it.
I'm assuming I can take the chip parms into a master just like anything else.
Since it's a mesh, and anything can be done with a mesh, in various ways and to varying degrees of ease, I figure any expression CAN be done. Possibly (probably?) with some of the vast array of controls on the figure. The resulting quality, of course, depends on the "mesh hacker".
I'll post the render as soon as it's done. OOT hair renders so beautifully, but at SF,HQSS it spanks even 36 cores.
Deecey last edited by Deecey
The biggest downside so far with the chips is no quick symmetry.
Did you try Figure > Pose Symmetry > Left to Right (or Right to Left?)
Or wait ... Figure > Pose Symmetry > Custom. There ya go.
@deecey I didn't try custom. Have never tried it. Didn't even know it was there although I want to say that was mentioned in a thread or video. Damn! I want a "Poser Lore" doc. So many people with so much useful info all over the place. :D
Deecey last edited by
CUSTOM lets you specify specific body parts (or chips!) to include in the symmetry.
@deecey derp! :D . Now that you mention it, i recall someone (might have been you, might have been BH) mentioning this before. And again, totally did not stick in my brain. I think I'm short on espresso in my bloodstream. I shall rectify this, while the render is happening. In a completely unrelated comment: wow, can you go close at very HQ on OOT hair. And wow, that challenges the render engine.
Deecey last edited by
Don't feel bad. I've forgotten more than I remember. If you don't use it you lose it. LOL
@deecey How do I still have a head???
rokketman last edited by rokketman
If you don't use it you lose it. LOL
looks at my crotch Uh oh....
Somewhere there's an EZ something or other for mats. Not @ghostship was it? I neeeeeeeeed it. Have seen lovely renders from it. I love the tooth mat that it supplies.
<fidgets> I'm all impatient for my render (other machine) to finish. I like this smile version. But she needs a better tooth mat. She's smiling enough to show teeth (something I NEVER did with v4). But she has cheap plastic white things in her head right now. And more lipgloss than anyone should wear (my fault, that one). ooh, and I know someone is working on "experimental" eye shaders. OOT's Cynthia eyes are pretty but... the experimental shaders POP.
k, I tweaked her smile with chips. Got rid of all morphs I was using to make the expression before.
Dayam, there's a lot of chips on that face! And a lot of parameters on that lot of chips. Smoke actually came out my ears as my brain overloaded.
Smoke coming out your ears can really clear a room.
Expressions are better with the chips. Not one click, by any means. Better, though. Gee, who would have thought the figure would work the way the developers designed her to :p
Note: I totally did not have the patience to render this SF,HQSS. Well, I tried and two blocks short, it just sort of stopped. And trying to save it out gave me a white PNG. That gorgeous hair is bru-tal. But so very yummy. In a cute sort of way.
Since the control chips are distorting the face shape, I fail to see why they are "better" than a highly detailed morph.
Where the face chips work is when you only make small adjustments which do not threaten the rest of the face.
Large movements - morph
Small movements - chips
Most expressions are pretty subtle anyway.
anomalaus last edited by anomalaus
@qazart the face chips can apply continuous rotations at arbitrary angles where linear morph deltas cannot. A rotation encoded as a morph is only correct at two angles: zero and the angle the morph was recorded. Everything inbetween is a linear interpolation, not a rotational interpolation.
That's why JCMs intended for a range of limb movements often have two or even three intermediary versions which apply at equidistant angles, and are gradually blended in and out of effect as the limb rotates.
anomalaus last edited by
@qazart ran out of time to add: your comment about large vs small area of effect is certainly valid, though, despite the rotational limitations of morphs.
@qazart Yeah, that was sort of what I found.
The chips work well for small movements and they have narrow scope. left-lip up moves the minimal vertices to move left-lip up :D
Chips, morphs, bones, displacement maps, cloth simulation, morph tool.... They're all just ways of affecting the mesh shape. 6 of one half dozen of the other. I mean, you could remove all the bones and make morphs to bend all the parts just like bones would, no?
Chips are rather like extra (hidden) bones to me. Isn't that what they are?? With an attached prop so you can select it. I mean, they rotate and translate weighted vertices in relation to an origin.
The reason they're better for expressions (to me) is because of how this figure was setup. This is what's taking some "getting used to". It's new. In some of the work I've done with the figure, I've made things harder than they needed to be because I would approach La Femme like she was V4. She's not.
But, for me, getting used to the new way La Femme works is a LOT easier and more fun than getting used to how DS works.
I pretty much agree with that, which is why you tend to get small smile morphs and large smile morphs. You cannot get large scale expressions with control chips though because you do not have enough control. You would need to control area of influence, and I don't think we have that. (unless someone can correct me here)
anomalaus last edited by
@thoennes no, on the first. Morphs cannot do continuous rotations. They can't substitute for bones unless your figure will be frozen in a single pose.
Chips are exactly* like bones.
anomalaus last edited by anomalaus
@qazart yep. Mouth morphs will always have the problem that they tend to be applied when the mouth is nearly closed. If the jaw opens widely, the lip morphs apply at the original angle, with vectors relative to the closed mouth, not the open jaw, so lip morphs tend to get further away from the teeth.
I should clarify, that head morphs will apply before the jaw bend applies, which somewhat negates my assertion above, but only when that is the case. Morphs after bend will have a different effect.
@anomalaus Well, yes. :D It would be silly to use morphs instead of bones, anyway. Imagine trying to do by hand something the computer can do so easily for you. Like finding a square root or calculating the position of the end of a series of links, by knowing the rotation of each link. You do it once. Then you write some code to do it for you. Before you know it you have Poser!
There are always caveats :p
Say what ??
I agree that if you are going for accuracy then the morph target has to be set at one.
However, in practice you can get some interesting and acceptable results from partial / mixing of morphs.
When you smile the cheek muscles mostly pull back and slightly up. This affects the top lip quite significantly which is pulled around the front teeth squashing the lip and at the same time causes the lip to slide up the teeth.
The bottom lip is affected, but not quite so much. It is pulled around the bottom teeth. All of this is quite complicated, but perfectly reproducible in a morph target.
Essentially you are producing a new head morph.
Try that using bones/chips. Horses for courses. A little is more. I will go away and come up with some pictures to show what I mean.