New La Femme Base Figure for Poser 11 Now Available

  • @deecey Yeppers, they're what I used. An opportunity for a set of "tongue expression" masters. Some (lack of) morphs that hamper expressions for me: upper lip up, lower lip down and combo (ie: lips part). There is nothing that positions the lips relative to the mouth. All the lip morphs are about shape. Or am I missing something? In one of the morph packs, maybe?

  • @thoennes ok, here's a first attempt. Just a smile, not a big one.


  • @afrodite-ohki Someone say "cheese" ^.^

  • Just to be silly:
    blinkies for the 21st century!

    I just combined the morphs I use into a single master. Ideally, the morph should make the upper lip rise, not have to open her mouth downward. A project!

    (I can't get over what a stunning job the LF team has done. Along with the vendors who support her, of course. :)

  • I had a go at creating a smile for Ulrika. It wasn't easy at base resolution. A smile distorts the face which is why so often you see models with subtle facial expressions. I was pushing the mesh here. Probably best to have subtle smiles.
    Don't attempt to use face chips to create a smile.

    0_1560856844404_ulrika 12c copy.jpg

  • @qazart best one, yet. There's something missing in the eyes, though.

    What about at subd1?

    Smiles are the hardest facial expression, I think. Not only do you have to get the model right, it's all angles and lighting as well.

  • Open laughter.

    Without posing the rest of her body (her shoulders would definitely not be so neutral laughing so much!) this goes right into uncanny valley.

  • @thoennes
    I did this a couple of months ago as a test.
    A smile is going to affect the whole face. But if you are going to include a smile with a character (I am), do you only include the mouth area, or the whole face. I think at the moment I am thinking that it should be up to the user as to whether eyes are closed, or even opened wider. That makes it the most versatile.
    Do people agree ?

  • @qazart I agree. There is a phrase, “Th smile did not reach her eyes.”

  • @afrodite-ohki said in New La Femme Base Figure for Poser 11 Now Available:

    You all are just making me wanna try to make a little expression pack just with smiles for her.

    By all means do. I'd love to have one!

  • TBH, I have thought ever since Poser 3, regardless of the figure used, smiles have never looked quite "right" as there is no real way to emulate the 43 muscles in the face, most of which are controlled by the seventh cranial nerve (also known as the facial nerve). This nerve exits the cerebral cortex and emerges from your skull just in front of your ears. It then splits into five primary branches: temporal, zygomatic, buccal, mandibular and cervical. These branches reach different areas of the face and enervate muscles that allow the face to twist and contort into a variety of expressions.and the body language that goes with a those expressions.

  • Well, I finally got a slightly better smile out of La Femme – with help of some other morphs. Once I loaded all of the face morphs for La Femme (the ones that came with the figure), I realized that a new smile dial appeared, which helped a lot. (It isn't there unless you load those morphs, which is why I didn't spot it to begin with.) Anyway, the result still isn't perfect, not by a longshot, but it's getting better, and at least the cheeks didn't self-destruct this time when I turned up the mouth. Here's the latest result (Remember I'm a newbie. Those who are really good at this kind of thing will probably be able to produce some winning smiles with that morph,):
    0_1560915821844_Smile 2 -La Femme.jpg

  • @qazart I think you make the smile a smile, when it's a head and/or face morph. But it should be a master.
    Smile (dependencies->)

    • Eyes-Smile
    • Cheeks-Smile
    • Mouth-Smile

    Then you can always negate or tune the parts, as need be, right? Greatest flexibility and the parts can be composed into masters however the user wants. For instance, an Open-Smile might include Open-Mouth with the rest. Or a full on "Laugh" might include "eyes-Closed" in addition to the other parts. maybe eyes-closed instead of "eyes-smile".

  • @tastiger Wow, dude. You've thought about this :D
    For a still image, I think it's possible to mold a mesh into the same shape as a smiling person. A surface is a surface, yes? But for animations, it's probably a major task to emulate the movement of 43 muscles, each moving their own way, and each affecting the skin (mesh) differently, throughout their motion. The very thought of it boggles the mind.
    For me, with La Femme, the lack of lip movement morphs hampers expressions involving the mouth. Of course, this means I could make those morphs. My tools to do so are pretty weak. And my knowledge, maybe only slightly less weak.

  • @thoennes said in New La Femme Base Figure for Poser 11 Now Available:

    For me, with La Femme, the lack of lip movement morphs hampers expressions involving the mouth. Of course, this means I could make those morphs. My tools to do so are pretty weak. And my knowledge, maybe only slightly less weak.

    The intention is to use the face control chips for expressions, and the morphs for character appearance. Have you tried the face chips for your expressions?

  • @deecey Initially. But I always turn them off and forget about them. I'll try them again :)

  • Let me explain the problem with the control chips.

    0_1560950106799_q comparison.jpg

    On the left we have the original face. Note the veritical philtrum and the natural shape of the top lip.
    On the right we have the effect of turning one dial. Upper lip control dial up 16.
    Notice what happens. It doesn't move lip up down. It rotates the lip vertically.
    It stretches the lip and buries the philtrum inside the face. It has even reached the bottom part of the nose.
    The geometry is distorted.
    This, I believe is because the underlying mesh density is too low and the area of influence of the chips too high.
    The control chips are a nice idea, but they don't work.
    You can get subtle expression effects with tiny movements of the dials, but that is it.

    If you want decent expression morphs, they need to be done in a separate program.

  • A side view shows it more.

    0_1560952650798_q2 comparison.jpg

  • It isn't the polygon count in La Femme's head that is the issue.

    You are accustomed to working with Victoria 4, which has 14022 polygons in her head actor alone. (top)

    La Femme has 5892 polygons in her head. There are enough polygons there to get a variety of mouth shapes (center)

    Compare to Genesis 8 female, which has 2812 polygons in her head. Now go to the DAZ site and check out some of the G8 characters, and the realism that can be obtained from even half as many polygons as La Femme has in her head.


  • Did you apply "Match Centers to Morph" to your character after you loaded the morph into La Femme? The face chips may currently be centered around the original center locations, and if your face morph moves the positions of the facial features that may be the issue.