View questions about Textures


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I have for this year a few plans for to release bigger environments.
    Whole Village, Landscape etc..
    Now I would like to know what kind of Textures you all prefer more.
    JPEG, Tiff,. While I prefer Tiff ( looks way better than JPEG) ,maybe others don't.
    The resolution size. 2048 -4096 depending on the size of the object.
    Which size for textures is for you more comfortable?

    Feel free to give a few more suggestions. What are you pro's and con's?

    Thanks in advance.



  • @ladonna in the days when hard drives were much slower than solid state memory, I would have suggested JPEG, to minimise the time taken reading the files from disk into memory. Since all of the image formats need to be uncompressed into bitmaps in memory, a user's available main and GPU memory are usually the limiting factors in image map size. Until Poser exhibits some kind of intelligent, adaptive resolution settings, high resolution environment sphere images will take up huge amounts of memory. Unless you're using a fisheye lens, probably half of that environment image won't be visible in the render, which is probably why IBL images are often far lower resolution, since they're still contributing to the scene lighting from behind the camera.

    JPEG files can also have much higher quality settings (lower compression) applied, so they could be closer to the size and quality of TIFF images. I have enough trouble eliminating fireflies from SuperFly renders (I'm always using reflection, refraction, caustics and volumetric atmospheric effects) that I know that image compression and quality are far from the limiting factors in my render quality.

    Figures that I know I'll render in closeup will commonly have 4k texture resolutions. The same for an environment sphere background.

    Since I'm now booting my iMac from an SSD, I'm just as happy with PNG textures as JPEG. I'm still waiting for Poser to properly support Alpha maps in PNG, rather than just ignoring them.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @anomalaus True.
    I was reading through Forums during the past few days to have a proper answer.
    I have to say I am more confused than before.
    While some want high resolution textures, other are claiming that 2048 is enough.Some want PNG,other JPEG or Tiff.
    But the problem goes more deep for me.
    Take as example an village environment with props, up to 8-10 stand alone houses, ground, eventual plants.
    Now I have the possibility to make for the house and his material zones procedural textures, which will look after 3 houses just not good. So I have to make for each house and material zones an UV map. This is a lot of textures. Yes, I could make one UV for each house, squeeze all materials zones in 1 UV map ,which will look after blurry when finished textured ,because some zones are to small.
    Second solution, I could make for each mat zone extra UV and texture, which will look after good, but way to much texture files which will eat up memory.
    So here I would like to find a balance which fits for most of the user.



  • @ladonna yes, it certainly is confusing. I've played with a similar kind of detailed scene, Red Hill Studio's Dream Home, set in Magix101's WorldBase Xtreme, with HMann's Village scene. The Village scene has much lower detail and lower resolution textures, which makes it perfect for background, while attention has been paid to atmospheric effects at the horizon, where details need to fade out. The Dream Home set is so detailed and expansive that I'm sure it's placing an unnecessary strain on my system. I'd love to be able to simply say "reduce the level of detail and textures for everything behind the camera" to use less memory.

    I could do such things manually, by taking the textures and reducing their resolution manually, but to have to do that every time I want to pose and render in a different part of the scene is a ridiculous amount of work to contemplate. Not only that, I discovered to my horror, that Poser Renders start exhibiting artifacts when the camera moves too far from the origin (about 45 metres) due to floating point underflow! It's quite difficult to try to remember that I'll need to parent every single building and prop in the scene to a grouping object and move it in the opposite direction, if I want to get artifact free renders in the Dream Home, which is situated about 1km outside the Village, where the scene's origin is located! As per this thread: SuperFly shadowing inaccurate away from scene origin.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @anomalaus I was thinking the whole morning how I could solve this issue.
    Poser 11 has this nice layer in the material room, where you can make nice mask effects. (dirt, decal on houses) ,which will give the scene a random pattern with procedural texturing.
    But, this set i would only make for Poser 11 available them,because in lower Poser versions, masking extra details is way to much work and effort.
    The house textures need to be detailed because they are standalone and can be used also for a small scene (1 -2 houses as near background) ,so blurry small textures are not a option to me.

    For this i sacrifice lower Poser versions.
    Now the question is still ,PNG,JPEG or tif. High,low or should I create both, so the people can download the extra pack ( low resolution as example) . In this case not only I could save the user work, but no detail in the extra material pack would get lost, because i can render them out straight from Substance Designer which will keep all the Normal map, height map details, which is in Photoshop not the case.



  • @Ladonna, personally I would stick with either jpg or png (I agree about the alpha channel of PNG it would be awesome to have transparency out of the box!) Your idea of 2 mats, one high one low and let the end user decide would be my recommendation, providing you explained when you would typically use one over the other, otherwise click and render users would automatically plump for hi-res


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @amethystpendant Thanks :) Now I am bit further with this.
    I think also 2 solutions is not a wrong way and it cost me not that much work.
    But could give user more flexibility.
    And JPEG for the normal textures and png for Alphas.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna
    Hi my friend.
    3 Things here.
    a) I would go for png all around. (every time you "resave" a jpg the quality reduces)
    b) If you need more "surface"? Poser can handle large textures.
    Most apps go up to 4096x4096 textures but Poser has no such limitation.
    You can use 8192x8192 textures if you need more high quality texture surface, and even take it up to 16384x16384 for real high quality.
    c) And as a last tip ; Keep the number of material zones as low as possible.

    I have a new video in the making about material zones control and it's advantages.

    best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony thanks for the tip.
    Problem, material zones. If you want really detailed textures ,realistic, you need to split up in material zones. Otherwise you have the hell to texture it.
    Other hand, squeeze to much in 1 map, you get blurry results.
    Many people can not handle to large textures like you suggest 8192x8192 or even 16384x16384.
    Look I have a house. Roof, windows, wall first floor, wall second floor, door, wood and Iron.
    Now If I would not have different material zones, I would even in Substance Painter have the hell in Texturing it
    So not really a solution.
    The only way is really make procedural with mask layer. And drop older Poser versions.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Here I have one example ready. ( damaged barrel has no metal ,so ignore please)
    Two barrels share the same procedural ,only the mask is different .Rendered out in Substance.(The mask)So I think to keep the files between 2048 and 4096 is a good way. Details are there and materials zones which makes not so difficult to texture.
    0_1549290129231_barrels.jpg



  • Ola minha amiga
    Eu trabalho com computação gráfica e aqui as gráficas exigem um minimo de 300 DPI de resolução.
    O tamanho de 2048 seria o suficiente e o tif é o de melhor qualidade ( mas o de maior tamanho ).
    Abs
    Flavio Kern
    Hello my friend
    I work with computer graphics and here the graphics require a minimum of 300 DPI resolution. The size of 2048 would be enough and tif is the best quality (but the largest).
    Abs
    Flavio Kern


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @flaviok Thank you my friend :)