PC spec priorities for Poser



  • From the £ signs I assume you're in the UK; have a think about a refurbished workstation, https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/dell-precision-t7610-twr-configure-to-order. The configuration options will be limited by what they have in stock, but if you're careful you can put together a real beast of a thing on the sort of budget you mentioned.


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    You need processor cores and enough RAM so that you'll never approach that limit.

    Be mindful that your usage habits may become more ambitious as you gain experience, so that you use more memory a few years from now.
    I have exceeded 64GB total system memory in use while rendering in Poser, albeit with a massive scene using complex materials and tight render settings, at large pixel dimensions. TinkerBell has 96GB RAM, so not a problem.

    I second the advice by @MrPunch and will add that you should look specifically for a used workstation with dual CPUs. These will have sockets for two processors on the motherboard. It's a great way to instantly double the total number of rendering cores. As far as I know, only Xeon processors can run in parallel.
    0_1549736923587_SUPERMICRO MBD-X8DTL-i-O Dual 1366 ATX sized mobo 200%.jpg

    The (used) X5675 Xeons in my workstation Urania cost $32 (US) each; they are HyperThreaded hex core, factory clocked at 3.06GHz (w/ 3.46GHz turbo). So, for $64 I have twenty four render threads clocked at 3.06GHz.
    The X5675 is one of several Westmere series Xeon processors which are H/T hex core and use the 1366 socket:
    0_1549737277423_Westmere clockspeeds.PNG

    If you buy a used workstation, I would replace any hard drives with new ones. An Acronis license will let you make a compressed backup of the existing hard drive (including the Windows installation) and mirror it to the new hard drive.

    If you need a Windows license, shop for an OEM license (not the retail version in a jewel box).

    Be wary of used video cards; it may have been run to near death by a Bitcoin miner.


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    TinkerBell is a T7500 chassis; Tink has dual X5690 Xeon processors (24 threads at 3.46GHz), 96GB RAM, and a 12GB nVidia Titan Z video card.
    0_1549740495965_TinkerBell T7500 - rendering.jpg



  • @seachnasaigh

    Dual CPU Xeon LGA1366 are not worth the money,yes off course they're 12 core/24 thread but these CPU scores in Cinebench less than Ryzen 2700/2700X or X99 5960X these CPU scores in Cinebench easy 1700CB points,in other render engines these CPU are still better than any dual Xeon LGA1366,8700k scores with 5.2GHz somewhere around 1600-1700CB and this CPU is 6 core/12 thread

    2700/2700X I would choose without the question as this CPU can be bought for £249 for 2700 and £280-£300 for 2700X

    This is my,its 5960X which now can be bought for £300,MB for around £100-£150 and RAM this depends,I'm running 96GB still can be upgraded to 128GB,on this picture I'm still running only 3GPUs,now I'm running 4GPUs and different motherboard ASRock X99 WS

    alt text

    alt text

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura


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    @jura11 said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @seachnasaigh

    Dual CPU Xeon LGA1366 are not worth the money

    This is a bit misleading.
    Yes the Ryzen 2700 is faster in some tests at stock speeds. Against a single Xeon Cpu...

    A bone stock Dual X5690 system is no slouch.
    Just about 1500 in cinebench.
    The Ryzen 2700, about 1525 or so.
    Basically no difference.
    Ryzen 2700x about 1700...
    If you air cooled overclock a dual X5690 system, the Ryzen 2700x suddenly isn't faster, at anything.
    Water cool it, well, do the math on that....

    You can sometimes find used dual X5690 servers on ebay for less than the price of a Ryzen 2700x cpu.
    How is that not a value if a complete server, is cheaper than a 2700x cpu?


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    Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about price wise.

    Well equipped Dual X5690 server



  • @shvrdavid don't those servers need a second computer for admin because they don't have a video card? Just curious.



  • @shvrdavid said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @jura11 said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @seachnasaigh

    Dual CPU Xeon LGA1366 are not worth the money

    This is a bit misleading.
    Yes the Ryzen 2700 is faster in some tests at stock speeds. Against a single Xeon Cpu...

    A bone stock Dual X5690 system is no slouch.
    Just about 1500 in cinebench.
    The Ryzen 2700, about 1525 or so.
    Basically no difference.
    Ryzen 2700x about 1700...
    If you air cooled overclock a dual X5690 system, the Ryzen 2700x suddenly isn't faster, at anything.
    Water cool it, well, do the math on that....

    You can sometimes find used dual X5690 servers on ebay for less than the price of a Ryzen 2700x cpu.
    How is that not a value if a complete server, is cheaper than a 2700x cpu?

    2700X scores around 1800CB and with OC 1900-1950CB easy, 2700 is better if you want OC I have built few PCs with 2700 or 2700X and both OC pretty much same around 4.3GHz(only on one build we are seen 4.4GHz), 2 of them are cooled by air cooler Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT and NH-D15S and other 2 are running under water

    Regarding the water cooling and air cooling, have run my 5960x or 5820k or 5930k with NH-D15 and been happy with temperatures, with all my chips I could OC my CPU up to 4.6Ghz, water cooling I do only on request, usually for single CPU and GPU good air cooler like NH-D15 or Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT is more than enough,I would stay clear of any AIO or CLC from Corsair or any cooler where is used Asetek pump

    Yes I agree you can find used X5690 servers like you posted for good money but who have at home sever rack, PSU etc I don't and many people don't have same

    I still try to keep clear from any dual CPU system, been burned by Asus Z10PE-D8 and D16 and X58 EVGA SR-2

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura



  • @shvrdavid said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @jura11 said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @seachnasaigh

    Dual CPU Xeon LGA1366 are not worth the money

    This is a bit misleading.
    Yes the Ryzen 2700 is faster in some tests at stock speeds. Against a single Xeon Cpu...

    A bone stock Dual X5690 system is no slouch.
    Just about 1500 in cinebench.
    The Ryzen 2700, about 1525 or so.
    Basically no difference.
    Ryzen 2700x about 1700...
    If you air cooled overclock a dual X5690 system, the Ryzen 2700x suddenly isn't faster, at anything.
    Water cool it, well, do the math on that....

    You can sometimes find used dual X5690 servers on ebay for less than the price of a Ryzen 2700x cpu.
    How is that not a value if a complete server, is cheaper than a 2700x cpu?

    Only dual Xeon X58 board which has offered any kind of OC on Xeon has been EVGA SR-2 which I owned for few years until failed and took both CPU and all RAM

    They're been few others from Asus but with them OC is bit limited

    If I built any dual Xeon or workstations usually I use Supermicro or ASRock boards as with them have bit better luck bit still with X99 or X299 you are not limited by so much if you are building GPU based workstations than CPU

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura



  • There's some discussion on water and air cooling. which is better? I generally don't overclock. I'm following this thread closely because I think my computer is already on borrowed time.


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    @ghostship They don't need a controlling workstation; any of my servers can run on their own, including displaying a desktop on a monitor (they have an onboard video chip). I use a KVM box to switch a single keyboard, video monitor, and mouse from one server to another. Each server has a unique desktop background picture -relevant to their unique name- so that I know which server I'm seeing. My blade servers lack a sound card, but have a PCIe slot if you'd want to add one. Clio (Dell r610) came with an aethernet card in that slot, so she has a total of seven aethernet ports! 0_1549770802732_boggled.gif

    Those "enterprise refurb" resellers also sell workstations (like my T7500 TinkerBell) with dual processors; I see that option as very good "bang for your buck" to get a lot of rendering power (lots of CPU cores and plenty of RAM) on a modest budget.
    Urania is an HP z600 midtower workstation; the full tower was the z800.

    I'd love to have a new workstation, but they're too expensive. I can afford the used ones; they cost a fraction of their new price.
    Clio (dual X5690 Xeons) cost about $25,000 new; I paid $340 for her.



  • @redphantom said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    There's some discussion on water and air cooling. which is better? I generally don't overclock. I'm following this thread closely because I think my computer is already on borrowed time.

    If you don't OC and prefer quiet system then air cooling is way to go

    But this again depends, do proper water cooling loop can be expensive but with right parts can be not so much

    If you mean by watet cooling, cooling with AIO or CLC kit from Corsair, Thermaltake, NZXT don't bother with this, its noisy and is not worth it if you are comparing with good air cooler like is NH-D15S or NH-D15, Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT plus BeQuiet Dark Rock etc because these air coolers are quieter and are you not risking failure of Asetek pump

    And again I would add, good case is worthwhile upgrade with good fans, if once case have poor airflow then you can have most expensive water loop or air cooler and still temperatures will not improve

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura


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    @redphantom Air (fin & fan) coolers will do for most cases; water cooling is a nice luxury for stock clock speeds. If I were overclocking, I'd probably use water cooling.

    Same model of motherboard, one -Cameron- using air (fin & fan) cooling...
    0_1549771008964_Cameron interior annotated 1200x900.jpg

    ...and one -Galadriel- using liquid cooling:
    0_1549771052690_Galadriel interior annotated 1200x900p.jpg


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    @ghostship said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @shvrdavid don't those servers need a second computer for admin because they don't have a video card? Just curious.

    My blade servers (C1100 & r610) all have PCIe slot into which you could install a single-slot GPU. My blades are all 1U high; if you wanted to use a double-slot GPU, you'd need a 2U thick blade chassis. Those are commonly available. I don't know if they would have the needed power supply cables.
    I do fine with the blades' onboard video chip; I think they displaying at 1280x1024 pixels, which is sufficient for a render slave unit.

    The workstation Cameron came with a subvariant of the SuperMicro X8D motherboard, the X8DAi-BT004, which sacrifices one PCIe slot at the bottom and replaces it with a SIMLC slot. The SIMLC slot is intended for a KVM-over-LAN card (aka remote management card) which enables you to use the workstation as a KVM switchbox.
    You can display sixteen server desktops in a 4x4 grid, for example. Select one of those servers, and its desktop will expand to full screen, and your keyboard and mouse now control that server. After using DLM to update Queue Manager on that server, you can then close the KVM display and go back to working on the workstation itself.
    SIMLC slot (always at the bottom):
    0_1549830847481_SIMLC slot - black - annotated.jpg


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    @ghostship said in PC spec priorities for Poser:

    @shvrdavid don't those servers need a second computer for admin because they don't have a video card? Just curious.

    It would all depend on what server you bought. Most have some sort of video onboard.

    Many rack servers can use PCIe riser cards to add 4 to 6 graphics cards as well. Some can use a remote mount box as well. Similar to eGPU basically.


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    (Herb's Custom Computer

    At home, prior to joining the Poser team, I built my own custom wooden case with maximum airflow (quiet 200mm fans) .. sure it's not space efficient but it does the job amazingly well without needing expensive watercooling. (I do use a close circuit waterblock.) Lol sorry for the mess! The back side uses an eco-friendly cleanable furnace filter to catch the dust and can be removed to service most components. The top flips up for alternative access, but of course I've put my soldering bench on top so I don't open it too often. I did have to rebuild from mobo up recently because of an experiment with an older Soundblaster card causing some bios issues. The most expensive single feature of this build was installing 12 USB 3.x connectors in the side and running the shortest possible extenders. I used the "keystone jacks", which are for routing multiple cable types (HDMI, USB) in a house wall. The 12-jack socket wasn't expensive at all but the individual USB jacks that snap in place weren't cheap. I run dual GTX 750s (will upgrade some day) and 7 monitors.


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    I have found that the cheapest way to get usb sockets is to get the ones that go into an expansion slot.

    Like this.

    alt text

    You can usually find them for about 5 bucks a pop


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    Most of my stuff is too old to have originally come with USB 3.
    The motherboards generally have a few of the old PCI slots as well as some PCIe slots.
    I make use of the old PCI slots by installing a USB 3 host PCI card. PCIe cards with USB 3 are very common; PCI cards are not.
    0_1549911865217_PCI card for USB 3 - oblique view.jpg

    In the SIMLC photo in my earlier post, the white slot is the old PCI type.


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    @shvrdavid Re: "5 bucks a pop"
    I have plenty of those and in fact one is in my system -- but it's not USB 2.0
    This is not the solution that would have fixed the issue I was referring to, however. I installed Keystone Jacks and 1-and-1.5m anti-dust rugged USB 3.1 cables to extend the 12 USB outputs of my computer's "front and back" panels to the side of the table, near the top, just under the table-top. I also used a card similar to the one mentioned by @seachnasaigh however I decided not to buy the $100 multi-port 10GB/s-gauranteed USB 3.1 (gaurantees maximum possible bandwidth for 8 ports but is 3x the cost because it has multiple controllers bundled on a single PCIe board) and got something cheaper that supports 10GB/s but has less ports.