simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content



  • PhysicalSurface Root Node and Material Room Layers in Poser Pro 11.1 saved the day for >10-year-old #D assets (content) purchased from third parties.

    I discuss it here in my DeviantArt journal: http://fav.me/dczjiv2

    For expediency, I show my simplified example:
    http://fav.me/dczjgdr

    and second skin via layer
    http://fav.me/dczjhv7

    and the render
    http://fav.me/dczh8y3


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    Try this setup for older (and newer content).
    You only need the Diffuse texture, and let the Math-Functions nodes create the Spec and Bump map for you internally.
    Set all color chips to true White in the PhysicalSurface Root and then :
    0_1549982825014_Physical-Node.png
    My units are mm
    => So in the above I have a max of 1 mm Bump out of the greyscaled Diffuse texture => White is OUT => See the brows, hair, nipples.
    => And for the greyscaled spec? => Darker area's like brows and hair get less spec.

    Simple and effective.

    Depending on the quality of the texture, you will have to play a bit with the values.
    But this is the simplest, and everything I have used so far has been converted to this setup.



  • @vilters that makes the bump on the lips/skin incorrect. If you just turn it B&W then the bump on the brows is incorrect. Bump maps need to be made in Photoshop. Also, what about GC? Does this even work properly with this hack?



  • Why not run it through EZSkin3?


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    @amethystpendant
    Certainly not. LOL.
    First reduce the number of material zones, then simplify using the PhysicalSurface.
    Most of the time, I get away with 3 material/texture zones.

    • Skin that loads at Gamma 2.2
    • Lashes transmap that loads at Gamma 1
    • Cornea, that has no texture. (Why should it? ? ? ) But i sometimes, rarely, I bring in a Turbulence bump. Rarely, like once or twice a year or so. LOL.

    @ghostship
    You are Correct : But I never (or rarely like once a year?) do close-ups.
    For "full figure renders", the above is more then visual acceptable correct for full view renders of a scene.

    But like the OP wrote?
    Older content bump and spec maps where just that. Greyscales versions of the Diffuse texture.



  • @vilters Your setup is an example on how to use the PhysicalSurface node in a non-physical way.
    The PhysicalSurface node implements the metal / roughness model. There is no such thing like a specular map for that model, use roughness instead. The specular input of the PhysicalSurface node defines the IOR of the material and for dielectrics it should always be used with its default value.



  • @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    But like the OP wrote?
    Older content bump and spec maps where just that. Greyscales versions of the Diffuse texture.

    But EZSkin takes into account eyebrows and lips and adjusts accordingly


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    @ghostship
    Actually, this setup is VERY correct because natural lips are probably the dullest flesh on our skin. => It is only when we start cheating, LOL, by painting them that they get some shine, blinn, spec, call the dog a cat, they both have 4 feet and a tail. LOL. Natural skin lips are very rough dull skin. (Nails on the other hand have some shine because of the material they are made of.

    Anyhow, for lips you have multiple options, like always, a mask and mix, or add a second layer.

    @amethystpendant
    Nope,
    EzSkin was invented when more modern figures start coming out with a gazilion material zones, and it became a nightmare if you wanted to adjust them all.
    Then came new render engines and the workflow became "unmanageble" because of the many-many material zones, many of them not required at all.

    EZSkin was to keep workflow under control, and do a lot of that work for you.

    I Study an obj file, and have a workflow to adapt material zones and textures that makes this procedure even less complicated.
    I also have a script that replaces texture A by texture B automatically everywhere it is used.

    When Lafemme came out, sge dit NOT go into Poser.
    Her OBJ file went to Blender and her textures went to Krita.

    With my workflow La Femme is also reduced to 3 material zones in, 'study part included) 38 minutes or so, making texture work dead easy, while all morphs, injections, riggings and JCM's continue to work as before.

    Wanna change a white to a dark skinned figure? One dial.



  • @vilters so are you going to do all that for @ibr_remote? You have your workflow, others have theirs, most of us do close ups which mean we need realistic textures not something that looks good if you are 20 feet away stood behind a rock so we can't see the naked lady is wearing boots :o)



  • @vilters it has nothing to do with roughness or gloss. It has everything to do with the direction of the bump. If you use a negative image for bump then the lips have strange looking bumpy lines instead of wrinkles, raised dots all over the skin instead of pours. Conversely if you leave the bump map as is, the brows and moles will dip down instead of standing proud of the skin. Just plugging a texture map into a HSV node and removing the color is lazy and looks terrible. Procedural bump is not a good replacement for a decently made map either and looks equally as bad as the lazy, fake grey map method. Once you set up your maps and shaders correctly you can save as an MC6 preset and never have to f**k with it ever again. Time well spent and the character will look good in any kind of lighting and closeups.


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    @amethystpendant
    I use the same textures as you do in EZSkin. Nothing changes in the textures themselves. Same pixel size, same textures, but I often work with 4096x16384 or higher.
    The figure in the demo above is my own creation, (with and without boots and /or hair) and uses a 8192x8192 Diffuse texture and a 4096x4096 Lashes transmap.
    There is more detail in that texture then in all V4 textures combined.

    The "hard part is the Obj file study part.
    Al the rest is a matter of minutes, and you only have to do it once per figure.

    Ach, when my flue is over I"ll make a demo video with LaFemme.
    Then you are all free to be the Judge.



  • There is no problem with several material zones per se (BTW i am not a fan of the put all textures into one file approach, that reminds me on how it was done back in the 80s out of other reasons).

    The problem is that Poser does not allow us to edit several material zones at once. VUE can do that, it has a collapse identical materials option. It works with any number of objects i have selected. For example having a snow mat layer on hundreds of objects and want to change it. No problem select the objects, pick the snow material and you are done.

    There is (was) such a thing for Poser: The Advanced Materials Manager 2 by ShaderWorks. It can do all that and even more! Unfortunately it was never updated for SuperFly and its not available anymore. I would really love to see something like the AMM2 implemented in Poser natively.


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    @nagra_00_ Over HW ,from Netherwork studios you can buy a script which does this.
    https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/netherworks-studios/transfer-material.html

    Very cool stuff.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony, to be honest, I even don't know where to begin here to point out the mistakes.
    First of all, you can not merge the material zones from a human skin to one material zone.
    Each part of your body/skin has a different value to let light pass through your skin. (Ears, hand, face, lips, feet , neck and so on.)
    You have different details on your skin all over the body. Your face, lips, are different with skin detail, than your hand, neck.
    Specularity of the skin, all over different, which means for all of this, you need different materials zones and set ups for the shader to make it realistic looking.
    Your CG girl looks like a plastic doll.
    Creating only one procedural bump for the whole figure is a serious CG crime.
    Please stop teaching other Poser user /beginner with this kind of horrible wrong lessons.
    And stop to make of Poser user the laughing stock of the CG community.



  • @ladonna said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @nagra_00_ Over HW ,from Netherwork studios you can buy a script which does this.
    https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/netherworks-studios/transfer-material.html

    Very cool stuff.

    Oh yes, I have that and almost all the other tools. Its cool but AMM2 is Nirvana, really. It adds a full blown set of Pro functionality to Posers material management.


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    @ladonna

    Hi Ladonna,
    Working with merged skin zones is EXACTLY the same as working with individual material zones. There is absolutely NO difference in the render output.

    When I get better, I"ll make the video.


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    Guys, what do render engines do? ?
    They merge all material zones and textures but they do it at render time.

    Would be funny if a render engine rendered V4's torso, and the nipples (separate material zone), a few minutes later. LOL.

    Render engines, ALL render engines, merge the mat zones/textures internally at render time.


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    @vilters You don't get it n'est ce pas?
    You need to set different values on the shader nodes regarding to the material zone. Or you need to use masks. But then you have masks over mask, which gives after no sense.
    And now you will tell me that Legions of CG professionals ,who dedicate their free time to study human skin behavior and light are all wrong? Bump, Normal, SSS maps, etc..all not necessary?
    The human skin is not all over the same.


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    Sorry guys, I have the flue, not feeling well at all but here goes.

    Render engines don't care about material zones or textures at all.
    .

    They only need that information to know where to look for pixel data.

    => You have FULL control of the render engine and what and where it looks for information when you set the bucket size.

    The render engine is rendering a bucket and that's about all it cares about.
    And even then, it is looking around that bucket to check for OUTSIDE information about shadows, Indirect Light and so on, because even when it is limiting itself to rendering ONE (or more for multicores) specific bucket, it has to know EVERYTHING that has an influence in that specific area like a shadow or light from a streetlight near by.

    Material zones and textures are just a organised way to store pixel data and tell the render engine where to look for its information at render time.

    Less zones and less textures (merged remember) also makes the render engines faster.=> They don't have to hop around to find the info they need.

    Back to bed.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @ladonna

    Hi Ladonna,
    Working with merged skin zones is EXACTLY the same as working with individual material zones. There is absolutely NO difference in the render output.

    When I get better, I"ll make the video.

    I am pretty sure of this. Since you use your self painted procedural textures/shaders , there can be no difference.

    0_1550054545251_sarcastic-meme-1.jpg


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    hey, figure it out yourself, I don't need nor deserve this right now.