simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @amethystpendant
    I use the same textures as you do in EZSkin. Nothing changes in the textures themselves. Same pixel size, same textures, but I often work with 4096x16384 or higher.
    The figure in the demo above is my own creation, (with and without boots and /or hair) and uses a 8192x8192 Diffuse texture and a 4096x4096 Lashes transmap.
    There is more detail in that texture then in all V4 textures combined.

    The "hard part is the Obj file study part.
    Al the rest is a matter of minutes, and you only have to do it once per figure.

    Ach, when my flue is over I"ll make a demo video with LaFemme.
    Then you are all free to be the Judge.



  • There is no problem with several material zones per se (BTW i am not a fan of the put all textures into one file approach, that reminds me on how it was done back in the 80s out of other reasons).

    The problem is that Poser does not allow us to edit several material zones at once. VUE can do that, it has a collapse identical materials option. It works with any number of objects i have selected. For example having a snow mat layer on hundreds of objects and want to change it. No problem select the objects, pick the snow material and you are done.

    There is (was) such a thing for Poser: The Advanced Materials Manager 2 by ShaderWorks. It can do all that and even more! Unfortunately it was never updated for SuperFly and its not available anymore. I would really love to see something like the AMM2 implemented in Poser natively.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @nagra_00_ Over HW ,from Netherwork studios you can buy a script which does this.
    https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/netherworks-studios/transfer-material.html

    Very cool stuff.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony, to be honest, I even don't know where to begin here to point out the mistakes.
    First of all, you can not merge the material zones from a human skin to one material zone.
    Each part of your body/skin has a different value to let light pass through your skin. (Ears, hand, face, lips, feet , neck and so on.)
    You have different details on your skin all over the body. Your face, lips, are different with skin detail, than your hand, neck.
    Specularity of the skin, all over different, which means for all of this, you need different materials zones and set ups for the shader to make it realistic looking.
    Your CG girl looks like a plastic doll.
    Creating only one procedural bump for the whole figure is a serious CG crime.
    Please stop teaching other Poser user /beginner with this kind of horrible wrong lessons.
    And stop to make of Poser user the laughing stock of the CG community.



  • @ladonna said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @nagra_00_ Over HW ,from Netherwork studios you can buy a script which does this.
    https://hivewire3d.com/shop/shop-by-artist/netherworks-studios/transfer-material.html

    Very cool stuff.

    Oh yes, I have that and almost all the other tools. Its cool but AMM2 is Nirvana, really. It adds a full blown set of Pro functionality to Posers material management.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna

    Hi Ladonna,
    Working with merged skin zones is EXACTLY the same as working with individual material zones. There is absolutely NO difference in the render output.

    When I get better, I"ll make the video.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Guys, what do render engines do? ?
    They merge all material zones and textures but they do it at render time.

    Would be funny if a render engine rendered V4's torso, and the nipples (separate material zone), a few minutes later. LOL.

    Render engines, ALL render engines, merge the mat zones/textures internally at render time.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters You don't get it n'est ce pas?
    You need to set different values on the shader nodes regarding to the material zone. Or you need to use masks. But then you have masks over mask, which gives after no sense.
    And now you will tell me that Legions of CG professionals ,who dedicate their free time to study human skin behavior and light are all wrong? Bump, Normal, SSS maps, etc..all not necessary?
    The human skin is not all over the same.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Sorry guys, I have the flue, not feeling well at all but here goes.

    Render engines don't care about material zones or textures at all.
    .

    They only need that information to know where to look for pixel data.

    => You have FULL control of the render engine and what and where it looks for information when you set the bucket size.

    The render engine is rendering a bucket and that's about all it cares about.
    And even then, it is looking around that bucket to check for OUTSIDE information about shadows, Indirect Light and so on, because even when it is limiting itself to rendering ONE (or more for multicores) specific bucket, it has to know EVERYTHING that has an influence in that specific area like a shadow or light from a streetlight near by.

    Material zones and textures are just a organised way to store pixel data and tell the render engine where to look for its information at render time.

    Less zones and less textures (merged remember) also makes the render engines faster.=> They don't have to hop around to find the info they need.

    Back to bed.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @ladonna

    Hi Ladonna,
    Working with merged skin zones is EXACTLY the same as working with individual material zones. There is absolutely NO difference in the render output.

    When I get better, I"ll make the video.

    I am pretty sure of this. Since you use your self painted procedural textures/shaders , there can be no difference.

    0_1550054545251_sarcastic-meme-1.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    hey, figure it out yourself, I don't need nor deserve this right now.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Super, you control your shader nodes with the render engine....We do not need any Material room and complicated shader setups, PBR nodes or what ever. We just need to control the SF render engine and are in Render heaven .


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    hey, figure it out yourself, I don't need nor deserve this right now.

    You don't need any explanation.

    Google after Guillaume Poirier and his thesis , Human skin modelling and rendering.
    There is no three node solution in Human rendering.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters to extract the specular map from the color map is not a thing I would recommend.

    Burned in specular will not give realism on all angles.
    The cool thing with PBR is that you have different maps for rougness, metallic, normal and color, that way you get a more realistic results from all angles no matter the light setup.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.



  • @biscuits said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.

    And of course although Poser can handle large maps, other render engines can't and so you would need a different setup for different engines, but you can't because you've changed the UV maps in the obj.



  • @ibr_remote

    I show another case of a very early 3D asset (released prior to 2006, for the Michael3 SR2 character) which did not have displacement nor bump maps. I had to generate the bump and displacement maps using Material Room shader nodes. In this case, the character I modernised is the LM Tristan for M3 by luciferino and CorvusKorax.

    I experimented with Cycles Surface and with Physical Surface solutions. I prefer the latter (shader solution at my DeviantArt Gallery):
    http://fav.me/dcznage

    I did notice some dissatisfactory results, but cannot tell if it is due to the geometry of the early figure itself, or some deficiency in my shader solution:
    http://fav.me/dczn8ew

    I did a SuperFly render in a different pose (I added a second skin swim trunks for him - for the sake of modesty, not intended as a final result):
    http://fav.me/dczn9cc


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @biscuits said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.

    You load 3 4K maps, head, torso, limbs.
    I Load 1 merged map of the same head, torso limbs. Total = 4096x12288
    Same surface, same pixel density, same detail because they ARE te same maps, just loaded in a different way.

    @amethystpendant
    All of Poser render engines, (5) can handle large maps.



  • @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @amethystpendant
    All of Poser render engines, (5) can handle large maps.

    Yes but what about other renderers not in Poser?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @amethystpendant
    When studying render engines, it is best to focus on one or 2 to stay fluent and current. More is not always better.

    Because when going outside Poser you also have to adapt all materials "pfffft, again, "pffft". LOL.