simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content


  • Poser Ambassadors

    hey, figure it out yourself, I don't need nor deserve this right now.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Super, you control your shader nodes with the render engine....We do not need any Material room and complicated shader setups, PBR nodes or what ever. We just need to control the SF render engine and are in Render heaven .


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    hey, figure it out yourself, I don't need nor deserve this right now.

    You don't need any explanation.

    Google after Guillaume Poirier and his thesis , Human skin modelling and rendering.
    There is no three node solution in Human rendering.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters to extract the specular map from the color map is not a thing I would recommend.

    Burned in specular will not give realism on all angles.
    The cool thing with PBR is that you have different maps for rougness, metallic, normal and color, that way you get a more realistic results from all angles no matter the light setup.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.



  • @biscuits said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.

    And of course although Poser can handle large maps, other render engines can't and so you would need a different setup for different engines, but you can't because you've changed the UV maps in the obj.



  • @ibr_remote

    I show another case of a very early 3D asset (released prior to 2006, for the Michael3 SR2 character) which did not have displacement nor bump maps. I had to generate the bump and displacement maps using Material Room shader nodes. In this case, the character I modernised is the LM Tristan for M3 by luciferino and CorvusKorax.

    I experimented with Cycles Surface and with Physical Surface solutions. I prefer the latter (shader solution at my DeviantArt Gallery):
    http://fav.me/dcznage

    I did notice some dissatisfactory results, but cannot tell if it is due to the geometry of the early figure itself, or some deficiency in my shader solution:
    http://fav.me/dczn8ew

    I did a SuperFly render in a different pose (I added a second skin swim trunks for him - for the sake of modesty, not intended as a final result):
    http://fav.me/dczn9cc


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @biscuits said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @vilters A human figure on one single material zone needs a huuuuge map to get any details.
    And its handy to have things like eyeballs for example separate on its own materialzone as it has a different shader setup.

    You load 3 4K maps, head, torso, limbs.
    I Load 1 merged map of the same head, torso limbs. Total = 4096x12288
    Same surface, same pixel density, same detail because they ARE te same maps, just loaded in a different way.

    @amethystpendant
    All of Poser render engines, (5) can handle large maps.



  • @vilters said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    @amethystpendant
    All of Poser render engines, (5) can handle large maps.

    Yes but what about other renderers not in Poser?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @amethystpendant
    When studying render engines, it is best to focus on one or 2 to stay fluent and current. More is not always better.

    Because when going outside Poser you also have to adapt all materials "pfffft, again, "pffft". LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters When it is all about one texture map; why merge materials to one and after bother with masks.
    Create a texture atlas.
    You still have one one large texture, but keep the benefit of different material zones.
    There is absolutely no reason to merge the material zones together .


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna You realize your talking to a wall right? He will never ever understand how it works.
    He never care about realism the way we do. He prefer them cheap and plastic looking.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Being labeled an elitist snob or similar, I stopped trying to promote realism to those who have no taste for it. And when presented with an argument that some technique that is far simpler than mine is more than good enough, that is the signal that I will not achieve anything by explaining it further.

    I realized that you can't make them understand. It's not because realism fails to be better - it is better.

    The problem is that when I'm trying to explain realism, and what it takes to get there, to someone who is happy with his own work, this is in fact a criticism of that individual, whether you intend it or not. To show a shader with 20 nodes is enough to implicitly say to this person: "Your shader is really bad". Even if I don't say that. So I stop showing.

    Vilters means well. But he is a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Look it up.



  • @bagginsbill said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    Vilters means well. But he is a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Look it up.

    ROFLMAO


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ghostman Ghost yes. But I can not get away people with teaching others wrong stuff.
    I am a scientists and therefore I have some important rules. When I am not sure about something, I keep my mouth closed or at last don't try to sell my theories as the only one right solution.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I hear a LOT of talk, from people that have NO clue about what or how it works.

    Again, and again, and again,
    The procedure uses THE SAME TEXTURES YOU do.
    The render output and realism is EXACTLY THE SAME

    But Math Room work is simplified.

    A lot of HARD comments from blindfolded people that never took the time to study.

    Well, don't worry, there will be a video about LAFEMME, and it will contain the study part for you. (Unfortunately I am in bed with the flue.)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    If people know how Opengl and graphics cards handle non square textures, they would stop using them.

    If you force mip mapping, the texture can get huge, and then has to be stored differently (square versus rectangle).
    All Uv data on a non square image is in floating point. (Has to do with textel (floating) versus non textel (normalized).)
    Filtering of non square is also limited, forcing it to be stored as square to do certain things to it.

    If the program being used forces it to be stored as Square to do something to it, all advantages of the rectangle are lost.

    And you can filter a non square image in Poser........


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @bagginsbill said in simplified solution for modernisation of 10-15 year old content:

    Being labeled an elitist snob or similar, I stopped trying to promote realism to those who have no taste for it. And when presented with an argument that some technique that is far simpler than mine is more than good enough, that is the signal that I will not achieve anything by explaining it further.

    I realized that you can't make them understand. It's not because realism fails to be better - it is better.

    The problem is that when I'm trying to explain realism, and what it takes to get there, to someone who is happy with his own work, this is in fact a criticism of that individual, whether you intend it or not. To show a shader with 20 nodes is enough to implicitly say to this person: "Your shader is really bad". Even if I don't say that. So I stop showing.

    Vilters means well. But he is a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Look it up.

    Hi BB, while I respect you , please take a look at the specular maps of LAFEMME.
    => So, you have spec on you belly, but no spec on your back. NONE, OK?
    In the face specular map it goes from true BLACK to TRUE while in 5 cm.

    Then they add a ton of nodes to overwrite the spec maps (PS the same for bump maps) and then they wonder why they can not get clean renders out of the thing.

    Well let me tell you that a simple greyscaled Diffuse texture does the Job 10 times better. 'At least I have spec on my back without a thousand calculations to Rome and Back.



  • ... anyone got any popcorn?

    this is gonna go the distance.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    **No, it just got better then this.

    LAFEMME does NOT load bumpmaps
    LAFEMME does NOT load specular maps

    Everything is build inside the advanced material room using a greyscaled Diffuse textures.

    Don't believe me?
    Open Poser
    Load LaFEmme
    Do a collectsceneinventory and save to folder
    See what you have in that folder.

    They do EXACTLY what I do.**

    Build everything from a greyscaled Diffuse texture and add some procedurals.