ULRIKA - New face for La Femme HELP

  • @amethystpendant

    It is a rotation. Set side-side in the eyes to 2 and -2 to fix default cross eyes. I'm using x offset to position eyes at the moment which isn't correct. I'm waiting to hear back from Nerd. Touch wood.
    Also I used your Ghostship for Ezskin on the hair. Looks a bit too shiny on this hair (DeRoca) though much better than original.

  • @johndoe641

    Thanks mate !

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    Very beautiful and natural looking face. I like it a lot :) Great work!

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    I've always had issues getting the match centers to morph auto feature to work correctly. Most of the time it does nothing. I've submitted bug reports about it but for some reason PTB doesn't seem to think there's a problem with it. So maybe there's a step I'm missing that's not addressed in the manual. At any rate, you can set them up manually via the joint editor. There is a video tutorial on SM's youtube channel that demonstrates how to do this, dating back to Poser Pro 2012.

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    The time limit for editing a post is way too short.

    ETA: Going the joint editor/manual way takes much longer and is a bit tedious but the trade-off is that you get to decide exactly where you want each of them to go instead of relying on Poser's algorithm to guess where they should be.

  • @ambientshade
    I will hunt out the video. Moving every single control handle would be a right pain. janimatrix suggests that saving & loading the injection worked for him, so I'll try that first. I take it match centers is not going to adjust the eyes though, or am I wrong ?

  • @ambientshade
    Can't find the video. Obviously the control chips didnt exist in Pro 2012. There is a tutorial on moving joint centers in Andy - is that the one ?

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    @qazart Yes. Not sure about moving control chips. Theoretically they should follow the bones when you move them but I've never actually tried that.

  • Some success ! By moving and scaling the eyes outside poser, and bringing them back as a morph. The joint centers seem to have moved with the x translation so the more realistic Eye + eyelid appears to work. Unfortunately the program I used isn't very precise. It'll do at a pinch.
    Pretty sure this should be something that can be done in Poser.

    A few of us can't get match centers to morph to work on the face. Nerd seemed to hint that this was so in the video he did a few days ago. The face chips work, even if they are in the wrong place, but it would be better if we can move the chips to their proper positions. Can this be done manually ? If so how ?
    0_1550567770012_success copy.jpg
    0_1550567789689_Femme eyeball copy.jpg

  • @qazart Thanks for that I will give that a go.

    BTW that is a lovely eye material!

    What you could do is move / scale the eye in poser then export each eye (do not use "as morph Target" then reset the eyes and load the exported eye as a new morph, no need for a second modelling app

  • @amethystpendant
    Do not use morph target !! Is that even possible ???? lol
    What I have found is that if you export just the eye, it gives you all the parts of the eye, despite not asking for that, and it will not accept an import as it thinks it has the wrong number of vertices. But if you export head and eyes, it only exports head, left and right eyes, and now you can import.
    Don't ask me - I'm just learning.

    Just love the eye movement dials, the eyes are so expressive. Anyway I can go back to refining the head now :).
    0_1550572569740_Femme eyeb copy.jpg

  • @qazart I feel that there is a completely unnecessary complication involved in this type of solution for facial morphs which involves the eyes. Is it your intent to change the essentially spherical shape of the eyes, or their need to remain in contact with the internal edges of the eyelids to avoid unsightly gaps?

    Any facial morph created, which makes allowance for the unvarying shape of eyeballs, can simply drive proportional changes to the eyes' position and size, without need for any morphs of the eyeball. If you examine a figure which has been doing the right thing in this regard since it's inception, have a look at what the EyeSize, EyeWidth and EyeHeight morphs do in the Victoria 4 figure. If the eyelids get moved apart by a morph, the eyes are simply translated on the X axis. If the eyes need to be bigger, simply scale the eyeballs and translate them backwards in the Z axis so they remain in proper relation to the skin of the eyelids. All of these translations and scaling are done by valueOperations as dependencies of the head morphs. There is absolutely (what never? No, Never!) no need to morph the eyeballs unless their shape offends you!

  • All that is required is to reposition and alter the scale of the eyes. For V4 its straight forward as its possible to move and scale the eyes within Poser. Sorted.
    This is not available in La Femme. Repositioning the eye, repositions the whole head. Decreasing the scale of the eye , decreases the scale of the head - or have you found dials I'm not aware of ?

  • @qazart I'll look at the file. I'd noticed, as with many figures, that unnecessary dials, like translations, are usually hidden for limb actors, unless they are IK terminals, like hands and feet. So far, I'll admit that I'm assuming that the translation and scale dials for the eyes are simply hidden, in which case they can be unhidden to add valueOperations and then re-hidden, as opposed to completely absent from the character definition.

    I have a render running, or I'd just load the character. Sha'n't be long...

  • @anomalaus
    Yeah, I tried unhiding using scene fixer

  • @qazart well, from what I can see in the RPublishing:LaFemme.cr2 file, the translation dials are externally named "Shift" (X), "Height" (Y), and "Depth" (Z), and are not hidden at all (apart from their names being unfamiliar). These translations have no valueOperations applied by default.

    The scale dials bear their usual names and have slaving valueOperations from the head scale dials, rather than using a propagatingScale from the head. This is fine, and just another way of doing things. Perhaps the developers found that propagatingScale had undesirable side effects for the control props. There are also corresponding smoothScale channels to blend the nearby skin of the head actor with scale changes to the eyes, and vice versa. I'm not sure I'd actually want single axis scale changes to the head to change the shape of the eyes in this manner. They would stop being spherical, and the weight values don't seem to be uniform. I'll need to look at the impact of this further, though it may not be terribly problematic.

    I do note that the eyes have a smoothTran channel, with associated weight map on the head. My understanding of this is that direct translations of the eyes should actually cause smooth morphing of the head within that weight map's zone of influence, saving the devs having to do lots of individual morphs of the head actor when just needing to reposition the eyes slightly.

    I can't see anything drastically wrong here, but I can't play with moving or scaling the eyes themselves just yet.


    I've just had a look at the smoothTrans weightmap on the head associated with the right eye, and it only has 1/3 of the head's vertices listed, so it can't possibly (by any mechanism I'm aware of) move the entire head if the right eye is translated. Again, something I'll look into further when my render finishes.

  • @qazart sorry for this mostly off-topic post, but it directly relates to eyes (V4 in this case), and a movie I went to see (you can guess which due to it's recent release, I'm sure), which is the cause of my render lockup.
    0_1550581618572_Screen Shot 2019-02-20 at 12.03.55 am.png
    Screen shot with (URK) eyebrow artifacts, probably due to my failure to verify that all the eye related head morph also got propagated to the eyeBrow actor. D-X<
    Very much WIP.

  • @qazart I forgot to ask you which hair you're using in your renders? I'm using FKDesign's Kiri Te Hair, with a deformer to move the parting left, and your example looks closer to what I'm aiming for.

  • @anomalaus In La Femme, eyes translation dials are moving not eyeballs only, but the whole orbit zone with the eyeballs. (Not face. Orbits only.)
    That leads to a totally different workflow in head morphs making IMO.

  • @phdubrov yes, so I see. Does that qualify as a fault/inadequacy in the Morphing Tool then, or just workflow changes? Is it failing to cope with smoothTran weight map influences when spawning morphs?

    I will have to upgrade my knowledge of this figure and such morphing techniques before I attempt to propagate superceded techniques, it seems. (I know how to zero influences with morphs and deformers, but have yet to deal with smoothTran weightmaps. )At least, when this B* render finishes :-)