P11 - V4/M4 - X-Ray Effect



  • @rokketman The V4 and M4 skeletons are conformable to V4 and M4. They fit inside the figures as well as the organs figure that DAZ makes.



  • @rokketman this is V4 in wireframe, with the conformed V4 Skeleton figure (plus lots of additional ERC) and the V4 organs (brain included)
    0_1551334278827_Screen Shot 2017-07-15 at 2.53.33 pm.png



  • @ghostship said in P11 - V4/M4 - X-Ray Effect:

    @rokketman The V4 and M4 skeletons are conformable to V4 and M4. They fit inside the figures as well as the organs figure that DAZ makes.

    @anomalaus said in P11 - V4/M4 - X-Ray Effect:

    @rokketman this is V4 in wireframe, with the conformed V4 Skeleton figure (plus lots of additional ERC) and the V4 organs (brain included)
    0_1551334278827_Screen Shot 2017-07-15 at 2.53.33 pm.png

    I understand that the skeleton and muscle figures all fit inside V4, but can you render it to look like an x-ray image?
    @anomalaus that's a preview image, correct?
    So can someone put those together like that and render it to see if they can make it look like an x-ray?
    I don't want to come off as sounding blow hard or stubborn, I am just not sure how to pull of what the OP is talking about all in Poser...



  • @rokketman yes, that is a preview, with the wireframe.

    From some minimal research on X-Ray effects in Cycles, it looks like the best technique for a single-pass render is to make materials use a TransparentBSDF surface and Volumetric absorption.
    0_1551354562108_Screen Shot 2019-02-28 at 10.47.16 pm.png
    That gives this kind of effect. Since the absorption strength is compounded with every surface passed, actors like the breast, which is modeled in detail, will need a much lower absorption density than the skin surface.
    I've only selected a few of the various materials to treat this way, and I think that more could be done with the transparentBSDF colour, as has been done with @bagginsbill 's tricky glass, to give more definition to the edge, as though the skin were denser than the muscles underneath. i.e. use a fresnel type technique to add contrast to the surfaces parallel to the line of sight. This is not at all physically realistic, I know. One of the first exhortations of the post describing this technique was that all materials should be modelled as close to physical reality as possible. For a light bulb and filaments (as was used in the example), that obviously means that the glass must have thickness.

    Unfortunately, unless one wants to splurge tens of thousands of dollars on realistic, modeled-from-life wares from Zygote, et al., we have no Poser models which accurately represent human musculature and tissue densities, just surface textures.

    Alternative tricks are to use emissive and translucent surfaces, which give that kind of X-Ray effect, with clearly outlined edges, but that introduces extraneous light into the scene which is hard to cope with unless that's the exact effect you want. Radioactive corpses ;-)

    Here's the reference I'm quoting: Render with CT scan effect
    0_1551355271390_SAEmq.jpg 0_1551355281364_ECleh.png



  • This was rendered in PoserPro11 using Firefly and the x-ray effect from Ajax's free shaders. M4 with the M4 skeleton inside. It doesn't work so well in Superfly though.

    0_1551360791762_xray-effect.jpg



  • @raven yes, that's the (I think it's) EdgeBlend effect I was thinking of, though the bones should probably be more intense (i.e. represent a denser material) than the skin surface for closer proximity to an actual X-Ray.

    IIRC, the tricky glass uses EdgeBlend plugged into the TransparentBSDF node in SF to darken shadows from glass edges.



  • @anomalaus More like this then? I adjusted the Edge_Blend's outer colour and the attenuation to make the skeleton show up more.

    0_1551364724328_xray2.jpg



  • @raven yes! Definitely on the right track there. In my memory/imagination (absolutely unmotivated to trawl through cupboards and look at my own X-Rays/CT scans), I think that the darkest area of the bones (inner colour) should still be lighter than the lightest area of the skin/flesh. These days with digital scanning and processing of medical images, one can increase the contrast of the structures one wishes to examine, at the expense of contrast elsewhere. With Computed Tomography, noone looks at the raw data, just processed slices, but that's a long way from what one might imagine a piece of representative art will display to convey an idea.



  • Now we are getting somewhere. It's not working in Superfly, though? Or did I miss something?



  • @rokketman No, I'm afraid that was a Firefly render. The OP did say they weren't preferential on which renderer so I just showed that possibly the look they want could be achieved in Firefly.
    I admit to not really understanding the different Superfly nodes to get desired effects so tend to just use premade SF shaders that I can adjust, hence the Firefly render! :)



  • Enjoyed this thread which started me playing. :)
    Here's a pic with some playing around with the shader to make the skeleton a different colour to the skin. The interior anatomy parts are just textured/shaded as they loaded.

    0_1551447188954_xray_mike_crop.jpg



  • This could lead to doing things like doing an x-ray to expose a terminator or something cool like that. Or the scene from the original Total Recall where he ran though the scanner with a gun...



  • Thanks for all the posts, folks! I'll have a tinker and see what I can come up with. :)



  • Oh, does anyone have a link to the Ajax shaders, please? Google doesn't seem to be my friend today, lol!



  • @glen85 Here is a mat room screencap for the x-ray material.

    0_1551712975814_xray_material.jpg

    (This post from Ajax way back in 2005 says redistributing his shader pack is fine)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    That's a really confused mind that built that shader. It's going to be very difficult to control if you don't exactly want what it is precisely doing (which is largely an accident).

    Translucence_Color without a lighting node plugged in (i.e a Diffuse node) is in fact acting same as Ambient_Color, just doing its own thing though. So ambience (glow) is there from two channels when it could be produced with more control by just one channel.

    The Transparency has an Edge Blend plugged in, but also using its own Transparency_Edge/Falloff, which is a hidden Edge_Blend built into the PoserSurface. As a result, again, you have a double effect which is not fully controlled by either one and will be a pain to adjust properly.

    The Specular Color and Value are both turned on, which means the surfaces will produce specular reflections of lights (in FireFly) and lights as well as other objects (in SuperFly). Nothing about an X-ray is justified there.

    I think the first thing you have to ask yourself is do you want to work in SF or FF and then we go from there.

    Second question is do you intend to use a light as your source of x-rays and then the material reacts to that light, or do you want it to just glow, and pay no attention to light sources? As well, related to that, do you expect the light (whether glow or scattered/reflected) to interact with nearby surfaces, thus producing secondary lighting? In other words, a bone can light another bone?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    How much realism is desired? None of the Poser shaders I've ever seen have any of the proper patterns. Imagine a human skin shader that was pure tan, with no details whatsoever. You wouldn't put up with that.

    Have a look at this image - tell me, do the interior of the bones look smooth, or do they display a structure/pattern inside?

    0_1551719099715_bc71b6ff-a3a4-43a8-b6a6-9486fdc3acba-image.png


  • Poser Ambassadors

    This is a sort-of canonical shader for the edge-blended transparency + glow. It's pretty trivial. I've put red around the key parts.

    0_1551719903150_85b13033-4362-49f6-8af7-f5e8417152f3-image.png



  • I'm just still playing. Here's another pic, this time with the skeleton texture's bump map added. Also a slightly different shader on the skin. Firefly again.

    0_1551725310530_newxray.jpg



  • Thanks for the replies, folks!
    I would be looking for a fair to good level of detail, but really fine detail isn't totally necessary, as I won't be making any close-ups (I'm going for an X-Ray pinup series idea, hence my question about clothing and other objects). Let's focus on V4/M4 for now, though.

    FF or SF? Well, whichever will deliver better results! As this is to be a complete new material set, I'd be going for the best option. My gut tells me that's SF, so, if that's the case, let's go for that.

    I would want the most realistic effect for the material itself (even if some artistic license is taken in the images themselves), so things like lights would only ever be used during setting up and posing, never in the render, so glows would be the option here.

    Finally, bones wouldn't cast light onto each other, so that would be a no-go. I would think that simply turning IDL off would achieve this, right? Things still appear to glow but don't outwardly cast a light which can be seen on other surfaces.