Difference in procedural 3D-textures in superfly and firefly



  • Hello,

    While I was working on Cycles/Superfly shader version of the soapy skinshader, I did a alarming discovery.
    Procedural 3D-textures are giving completely different results in Superfly compaired with Firefly.
    Perhaps some of you already knew this, and I knew the Noise texture didn't work right in Superfly, but none of the 3D-textures is working like you would expect.
    I think this is quite disturbing because now there is no change we can make hybrid shaders with procedural textures that work alike in Firefly and Superfly.
    I have tried several unit settings in the preferences, but that makes no difference, although I believe it's a internal scaling and co├Ârdinate issue.

    I hope SM can fix this in a next service release, or explain why it can't be fixed.



  • I secon that request. Please fix the procedural nodes.



  • Folks, I don't know the software engineering behind this difference, but I believe the render engines work differently, and not all Firefly nodes will work for SuperFly. It is a totally different design philosophy, if I may describe it in a nutshell. I've used the Blender renderer, which SuperFly is based on, and the logic behind how the nodes work appears to be different from the logic of FireFly. What would be great, would be something that could convert SuperFly material setups into FireFly setups, but that's like asking for extra-galactic astrophysics or whatever.



  • Isn't that the point though that you can have separate sets of nodes only for Firefly or Superfly?

    Since they are entirely different underlying render engines, it would seem to me that unless we are talking about simple materials (texture maps and basic transformations like bumps, etc), there's no reasonable way to tell.



  • @ibr_remote For clarification's sake, Superfly is based on Cycles, NOT the Blender Rendering engine. I point this out because Blender DOES have a default renderer, but it is NOT Cycles.



  • @eclark1849 Correct ! I needed that clarification to my comment. Blender Internal is one renderer, and Blender Cycles is the other, which is what Poser Pro 11's SuperFly renderer is based on.


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    I have run into differences as well.
    But it is not just with FireFly and SuperFly that I see this.

    I use various render engines in other apps and get differences as well.
    Making them work the same could also create an issue that others would notice.
    That would simply be that Superfly would drastically differ from Cycles then.
    So basically anyone coming to Poser that was used to Cycles would be scratching their heads asking why something looked far different than what they expected.

    It is a double edged sword in many respects.

    I do agree that there are some oddities that still have me scratching my head on how to get around them. Both from Firefly and a Cycles perspective.



  • I think I have to clarify my request, as some people got it wrong.

    Posers Superfly has about the same nodes for procedural textures than Firefly. They have been ported from Firefly to Superfly, they are not a part of cycles. Things like Noise, Wave, Turbulence, etc.

    The scale of some of these nodes is different between SuperFly and FireFly. This is something which makes it unnessesarily hard to convert procedural textures between these renderers. From my point of view, there is no reason why the procedural nodes should not work similar in both render engines.

    That's what I want to see fixed.



  • @bantha said in Difference in procedural 3D-textures in superfly and firefly:

    The scale of some of these nodes is different between SuperFly and FireFly.

    Which ones are you most concerned about?



  • 0_1462302385903_comp1.jpg



  • 0_1462302596288_Comp2.jpg



  • 0_1462306023958_comp3.jpg



  • These are the generators which work differently in FireFly and SuperFly. Others like Granite and Spots do not.
    It would be great if these can be fixed.



  • Oh, I totally forgot about Wave3D:

    @Uli-Klumpp 0_1462306909797_Comp4.jpg


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    Noise is also wildly different.



  • This makes it really difficult to convert shaders. In fact, it's more like recreating them - which also means that procedural shaders cannot be shared between the two render engines. So I hope for a fix for this in SP4, hopefully soon.

    By the way, I like the fast pace for the SPs a lot. It's great to have the new scatter algorithm in SP4. Just pretty please, fix this too.