Black splotches on final render



  • A quick example of other problems that i found. Scene was created in Poser 2014

    FireFly render done with Poser 2014:
    0_1556901158995_TinCan_Poser2014.jpg

    and here FireFly render of the same scene in Poser11:
    0_1556901179790_TinCan_Poser11.jpg



  • Yeah, I've been noticing Smith Micro is good at ignoring problems like this. I might consider Daz, but seeing as how all my content, libraries, figures, scenes, textures, etc are set up in Poser, it would be impossible for me to switch over. I'd lose everything and have to start over from scratch.

    I had a serious glitch with magnets almost two years ago and have been hoping for a fix, but I'm always doubtful it will happen.



  • @nagra_00_ i have compared both pictures a while now and i honestly liked the one done in PP11 more.
    Maybe i have a differend take on this, so it would helpfull to know what issues you have with the PP11 rendition of your scene, whitch i happend to love btw.



  • @cujoe_da_man They didn’t ignore it. After i send in the report together with a test scene to reproduce the issue (the one that looks like a self-shadowing artifact). Tech support confirmed the issue and told me the dev team is already looking into the issue. They just never released a bug fix for it ;-)



  • @marco I don’t like the high gloss/reflection artifacts on some materials on the ground. That the light reflections on the ceiling center are not the same is not so important.



  • @nagra_00_ ok, i can see that. Funny thing is, thats what makes this picture better/more realistic in my oppinion.
    I dont want to dive to deep into this but is the whole floor made with the same amount of specular value?
    It seems to me that the two hatches in the middle of the floor and the two bases on the left side of your picture are somehow more reflective as the rest of the floor.
    I noticed that materials in PP11 have a slidely differend, higher specular value from the start.



  • @cujoe_da_man, one thing i spotted in your settings for the mail light maybe have an influence on your problem.
    The shadow mapp is set to the default value 256. As far as i know this setting means the shadow mapp is 256x256 pixels. This could causes bad/low quality shadows.
    One other thing i don't understand is why you don't activate Ambient Occlusion.
    In the Render Option Tab Indirect Light is tickt on, you have made Min Shading Rate to 0.20, but without AO you have no access to bias and max distance values.



  • @marco I found the scene file and checked the materials. The super bright areas do have both ray reflection and anisotropic. Ray reflection is Ok but the anisotropic node fires like crazy in this scene and light setup. Reducing its value by a factor of 25 or more i get results that look more like in the Poser 2014 render.



  • @marco

    I thought I had AO on, I will check that right now.

    Now that I think about it, does AO need to be on? I thought I read that was what Indirect Lighting was for, it makes its own AO. Was I wrong or maybe read it wrong?

    Also, I have never noticed a difference in anything when setting the shadow maps higher, but that just might mean I haven't done anything that required it to be higher, I shall bump that up and try it out.



  • @cujoe_da_man, if you do this render again, with altered values, it would be interesting to see the outcome.



  • @marco

    I went through and turned on AO on all the lights except for the IBL. I also bumped the map size up to 1024 on each light and this is the result:

    0_1556914119969_test4.jpg

    It does seem like it's less this time compared to the last, but still looks like she's being accosted by some virus.



  • @nagra_00_ , i really think SM Developers have changed the FF Renderengine in PP11 for the better.
    The big change to SF and the integration of cycles materials into the program in mind, i found FF more responsive and faster. The SSS Materials are rendering better then ever.
    And if one has to tweek some materials from older files, its nothing in comparison to the extensive changes one has to make to get some decent results out of the cycles renderer.



  • Firefly's ray accelerator was upgraded for Poser 11, with the result that rendering is a little quicker. An unfortunate side-effect was that the lighting calculations in IDL and IBL renders seem to break down in some circumstances. Gently curving surfaces are one circumstance (in other words, what Poser was designed for) where these artifacts appear when light levels are low. They can sometimes be mitigated by applying subdivision to the surface in question, but not always. The only reliable cure I've found is to render in Poser 10.

    @nagra_00_ and I (and probably others) have submitted reproducible bug reports. I assume that they decided not to fix this bug in a development meeting that took place a long time ago. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

    My own (two year old) thread on the subject is here - https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/877/idl-in-poser-11-a-step-back-from-poser-10



  • @englishbob

    Ok, people keep bringing up subdivision and I see various things in Poser for it, but what is it and how do I apply it to the figure/textures?



  • If the surface is a figure, go to the properties tab with the body selected, and you'll see subdivision sliders for preview and render (meaning you can set the render subdiv higher than the preview level). If these are greyed out, go to the figure menu and select Poser unimesh from the skinning method entry.

    Some figures such as vehicles or buildings will crack up when subdivided, and sometimes it doesn't improve the situation enough, so it's not a universal solution.



  • @cujoe_da_man, yes, its the first digital virus that infected images of human skin.
    As a next step i would make some tweeks inside the scene AO Option Dialog.
    There are three values, max Distance, bias and Num Samples.
    I go for indoor scenes with a Max Distance 0.5
    Bias 0.5
    Num Samples 6-12
    and i would tick on the Evaluate in Light.
    The Max Distance defines how far a AO will get in relation to the surface of an object in poser.
    One has to play a bit with the values but this settings should kill all unwanted artefacts.



  • @marco said in Black splotches on final render:

    @nagra_00_ , i really think SM Developers have changed the FF Renderengine in PP11 for the better.
    The big change to SF and the integration of cycles materials into the program in mind, i found FF more responsive and faster. The SSS Materials are rendering better then ever.
    And if one has to tweek some materials from older files, its nothing in comparison to the extensive changes one has to make to get some decent results out of the cycles renderer.

    I don’t agree. As @englishbob said, they broke something by updating the ray accelerator that can not always be fixed by the user. And in the Mac version the ’ks_microfacet’ node is totally broken. The node works only for a roughness value of 1.0 for any other value it does not produce any output. This is a no go for me.



  • @nagra_00_ , ok, i can not speak in regard of any Mac Issues, because i am on Windows my whole digital live.
    Whats the thing with ray accelerator? How can i notice whats been broke?



  • @marco

    Ok, here's the render with your recommended settings (ignore the line, I've been doing a spot render specifically on that one area because it's the trouble point):

    0_1556917522185_test5.jpg



  • @marco said in Black splotches on final render:

    @nagra_00_ , ok, i can not speak in regard of any Mac Issues, because i am on Windows my whole digital live.
    Whats the thing with ray accelerator? How can i notice whats been broke?

    Here is one example i run into. The scene was created in Poser 11 and shows strange artifacts on the street. BTW It does render perfectly in Poser 2014.
    0_1556917787242_US3_test01.jpg

    The only way to get rid of the artifacts in this scene (and i tried really anything you can think of) was to hide the cars as shown in this render:
    0_1556917818534_US3_test02.jpg

    Problem is you never know when this happens and whats the trigger for it.