Rigging a mouth



  • Ok, so I have a third party 3D model I successfully rigged in Poser Pro 11 using the bone structure and morphs from the Ryan model. All the joints were edited and the model moves perfectly in Poser.

    Unlike all the models other rigged body parts, the mouth isn't working at all. The Ryan donor model has both upper and lower teeth and tongue bones that I included in the third party model rigging. However, when I attempt to use simple morph dials to open the teeth, or a facial morph expression dial that came with the donor model that opens the mouth, it isnt working right. I can see internally where the upper and lower teeth work correctly and the mouth appears to open, but externally, the mouth on the model does nothing.

    Can someone please let me know what I'm missing to get the third party model to work with the donor model facial morphs?

    Thank you in advance for any assistance with this!



  • How did you go about copying Ryan's morphs? This won't work if you simply copy the deltas from the CR2 since the polygon structure is different - in fact Poser will most likely ignore the dial altogether since the vertex count will be wrong.



  • Thanks for the reply englishbob! When I used the Ryan figure as the doner, I simply let Poser copy the morphs to the new figure when I loaded Ryan in the setup room. The interesting thing is the donor body morphs work great with the new figure, just not the facial morphs.

    One thing I didn't do I discovered a short time ago was I failed to include the models upper and lower lips in the upper and lower teeth vertex groups. Not sure if this will make a difference or not, but I'm gonna give it a try.



  • Sorry for the delay, the setup room isn't my area of expertise so I hoped someone else would jump in meantime.

    However you have the basic principle right - vertex count is all-important. If it isn't right, your morph won't work in a variety of interesting ways. Hope you have it sorted out now.



  • Yep, that was my problem. Doesn't look real great but it works and my models will be on a very small scale so the facial details aren't as important. Although I hate going in and out of the Setup Room to add and weld vertices to other already grouped vertices, it was a better option than regrouping in my 3D modeling app and recreating the bones all over again.



  • @shepdaddy Great, glad to hear it. The setup room has always struck me as a bit clunky, which is why the little rigging I've done has been 'old school' style by importing a hierarchy file. I realise I'm missing out on cool features by taking the nuts and bolts route, but at least I still have all my own hair. :)



  • @shepdaddy

    Unlike all the models other rigged body parts, the mouth isn't working at all. The Ryan donor model has both upper and lower teeth and tongue bones that I included in the third party model rigging. However, when I attempt to use simple morph dials to open the teeth, or a facial morph expression dial that came with the donor model that opens the mouth, it isnt working right. I can see internally where the upper and lower teeth work correctly and the mouth appears to open, but externally, the mouth on the model does nothing. <<<<<

    Select Ryan's lower teeth actor.
    Click the right arrow that appears in the Paramaters Palette, for the BEND dial and choose Edit Dependencies.
    This is only an explanation of why your mouth isn't opening. In the "Value Operations" tab of the dependency editor, you'll notice that the lower teeth are linked to several head face morphs for the phonemes, and also for mouth open and such.

    So now, here's why ....

    In order for Poser figures to work with the face room, the "head skin" (including the mouth) has to exist in the head actor. So you won't be able to regroup the mouth parts to link them to the upper and lower mouth. Instead, what you will need to do is create a face morph that opens the mouth of your model. And then you will have to use the dependency editor to link that mouth open morph to the "lower teeth" bone so that when you pose the lower teeth the morph on the head will follow along. Hope that makes sense.

    (Actually for your custom figure the face room part is redundant because making a figure compatible is not something that's easily done ... I just added that to explain why Ryan's mouth works and yours doesn't right now)

    What modeling tools do you have?



  • Thanks a bunch for the pointers, Deecey. I'll give it a try with my model and see what happens.

    I've used both Misfit Model 3D and Blender for creation of the vertex groups. I've also used Poser Pro 11.1 to do the same , but I can't get their grouping tool to work unless I'm in the Setup Room. For me, Misfit Model has been the best so far for this task as its simple and quick to get 3D models grouped and ready for rigging in Poser.



  • Deecey, I've checked and it doesn't appear I can create a face morph from scratch in Poser Pro and link it to the Bottom Teeth. And I'm quite sure it can't be done with Misfit Models 3D either.

    So, what programs are available that you and others recommend to do this that won't break the bank?



  • @shepdaddy [EDIT to remove redundant reiteration of @Deecey 's explanation X-D] Can you post a screen shot of the figure's head with a face morph dialled in but not working? I haven't worked a lot with Ryan and was worried that the issue might be expressions derived from body handles which won't transfer from the donor figure, but having looked at Ryan's CR2 just now, I can see that it's just using Binary Morphs for MouthOpen, for example. So theoretically, that should have transferred. BUT, given that the head of the donor has all those internal body parts which are in close proximity, it just may be that the morph transfer got too confused about which vertices to follow, and failed to move the vertices in the transferred morphs.

    If it's just the face morph transfer that failed, there are other ways to create morphs within Poser, without having to spend money on other tools. Magnets can do interesting things. The Morphing Tool is quite effective, and can preserve symmetry from one side to the other. If I read correctly, you do actually have the teeth actors following a mouth morph adjustment, but the morph itself doesn't move the lips at all? This means the problem is not with the valueOperations, but just with the morph transfer.



  • Hey Anomalous! Yeah, you got it right, the Bottom Teeth are connected (or associated with) to Ryan's (and the donor recipient's) head and include several morphs, such as MouthOpen and MouthOpen Wide.

    After rendering the model with both the Upper and Bottom Teeth with MouthWideOpen, it appears to work correctly (see screenshot of the model head). Unfortunately, the OBJ format that came with this model had no included textures. There were textures with the other formats of the model, but I've not been successful with them yet, so I'm going to start a new topic for any pointers with that.

    Thank you all again for the help with this!0_1558446254820_SS1.JPG