Apollo Maximus - Eyes in Superfly


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Ok ... this has been an ongoing discussion on fb, but thought we could get some answers here.

    First render, just in Superfly ...

    0_1557850772789_AM eyes.png

    Various tests ... Kept getting the ring ... no matter how we altered the Iris, eyewhite (sclera), pupil or cornea. BUT with JUST the eye, no body.

    0_1557850989218_EyeTest4.png

    So I decided to test this in all white ... (just blackened the pupil and didn't make a difference when I didn't)

    Preview

    0_1557851075026_preview.png

    Firefly

    0_1557851095963_firefly.png

    Superfly

    0_1557851224461_Superfly.png

    And finally, Superfly just the eye.

    0_1557851182250_plaineye_white.png

    So something to do with body and eye and Superfly. Any insights?



  • number of transparent bounces used?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Could be the UV map. the edges around that area is stretched.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I have a handful of neurons claiming there always was a gap there and I used to see the pink of the inside of the head or the eye socket. But that may be a false memory.

    Could you use my two-sided material on the eyeball and put something really odd on the inside, such as green. Then if we see green at the rim of the iris, we'll confirm there is a gap.

    If there is a gap, I'm going to perhaps guess that it's to do with subdivision, but I'm doubly guessing now without first branching on the initial question: Is there a gap?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    There is no gap. I think it's an overlapping polygons issue.
    If you make the cornea fully transparent you get that black circle, but if you delete the cornea polygons the issue disappears.

    0_1557859809345_Sans-titre-1.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Even if you delete the edge row of polygons on the cornea, you get a black line with the edges of the other polygons.

    0_1557860606482_Cornea line deleted.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'll test BB's idea, but it looks like vince's analysis bares out the reason behind the problem. I played around with the texture maps for 2 weeks trying to find a work around. I even made the eye invisible but all I got was the concave part of the face, which came out as black in mapped but white with the not-textured white shader. The curious thing is that the anomaly is minimized when the eye stands alone.



  • I get weird artifacts like that in superfly renders when a transparency mapped body part (e.g. V4 eyebrow) approaches an underlying surface (e.g. V4 head) within a certain threshold. My first take is that this is a SuperFly Renderer bug, since it disappears if the intersecting or proximate surfaces are sufficiently separated. I regard it as a bug also because for a perfectly transparent surface, there should be no shadowing or artifacting.

    I've also seen artifacts created by supposedly hidden objects, such as @bagginsbill 's grid replacement for the focus distance control prop. With artifact lines on floors and body parts where the prop would be if it were visible.

    0_1558005800073_Screen Shot 2019-02-20 at 2.05.46 pm.png Completely transparent part of the eyebrow intersecting or too close to the head.

    0_1558005847976_AlitaAttention.png The angled lines that converge in the figure's shadow at the wall/floor intersection just happen to be where the focus plane was.

    0_1558006080915_Screen Shot 2018-11-28 at 11.46.10 am.png
    Another phantom focal plane artifact shadow.

    0_1558006184929_Screen Shot 2018-11-28 at 11.44.52 am.png The wireframe preview of the previous render.

    It gets us nowhere, but I do have occasional flights of fancy as to what kind of process might mistakenly generate such artifacts, and what I keep coming up with is some kind of floating point precision underflow during intersection calculations. But I'll never get to lay eyes on the code, so:

    "Is this a real line? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a render, no escape to reality..." ;-)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vincebagna Could you ... separate the cornea ... enlarge it then recess it beyond the overlap? Would that fix the problem? I'm not sure I'm skilled enough to do this.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @boni Hmm it's not that easy. The cornea is part of the eye obj. So i can't separate it from the eye within Poser.
    For the sake of testing, i separated the cornea in my modeling program, then i imported back both the new eye and the new cornea objs in Poser.

    When i render them as separated objects i get the same issue.
    0_1558099969626_EyeAndCornea.jpg

    If i make the new cornea invisible, the new eye is intact.
    0_1558100003861_CorneaInvis.jpg

    And if i translate very slightly the cornea, the issue disappears (i translated it about 0.0001)
    0_1558100061514_CorneaMoved.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I tried to make a morph without separating the cornea but by slightly moving the outer cornea vertices, but there was still a fine line with the same issue. It happens because instead of being attached to 2 polygons only, the outer cornea vertices are attached to 3 polygons. That causes the issue. I can't see a way to make that disappear :(



  • @vincebagna
    Yep the cornea is attached and modeled as part of the eye, bit of a pain to be honest.
    I detached it a while ago in modo and swamped the Apollo object for the one I altered.

    Distributing a fix would be a nightmare as the whole apollo object is needed to maintain the morphs and ADS dials and I think that goes against Antons' EULA - unless he's changed it recently.

    The line can be diminished with a detailed morph that pulls the cornea forward and then moving the edges parallel to the join almost creating a T shape - but even that doesn't remove the problem completely and it changes the way the cornea renders lights


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here is something you could do to avoid this issue:

    Load Apollo and zero pose him.
    Make his head invisible.
    Select the rEye and click on the Grouping Tool.
    Select Remove/All. Then Add/Material/Cornea.
    That way you will have only the cornea polygons selected.
    0_1558102090067_Apollo_CorneaGrouping.jpg

    Select Create Prop and name it rCornea.

    Select the rEye again, and click on Delete Polygons in the grouping editor.
    Then parent your new rCornea to the rEye, and type 0.0001 as zTran for the rCornea.
    All should works now.
    Do the same for the lEye.
    0_1558103446455_Render 4.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vincebagna This is fantastic!!! Great ... I've never worked with Poser on this level before, but would be glad to give it a go. May I share your images and comments to the fb page where this issue originally was posted?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @boni sure 😊