erogenesis and poser

  • Hi All,

    sorry for not showing my face all this time, but there's literally nothing to announce. I've been busy non-stop with comic production, basically catching up for lost time with PE. Its going well but there's still lots to do.

    Regarding PE, a lot can be said but as far as I am concerned PE is still a thing, I am just not whipping her like a corporate entity would. I do admit I kind of see her as a perfect foundation for some very nice figures/characters, but you need to be quite a poser fanatic like me to do that.

    PE is a complex figure that uses tech that Poser itself can barely support. Many vendors were interested but ran into the JCM wall. PE also has other interconnected morphs that confuse matters further. The only way forward from there was that I stop making comics and went full time helping these vendors. That was too much, I was completely spent. But yes, PE has complex rigging. That's the only way to get realistic bends into a Poser figure. That was my goal, I did what set out to do. Now if folks are content with La Femme, no problem. She looks perfectly ok to me. But I stand my ground with PE's rigging, that's the only way to achieve realistic figures in poser currently. The whole of CGI strives for realism, why stop at simulating our own image in CGI because the rigging is too complex?

    And yes this has consequences for making content. Nothing I will do will simplify that, unless either I or Smith Micro make tools to help streamline this process. Now I have made a start with those mannequins, but more needs to be done. This all takes a LOT of time to do, and IMHO this is what SM should be doing. PE's manual explains why. Smith Micro, please do something.

    I will admit I was naive about the whole thing. I thought just by making a good figure, things would snowball from there, given how fanatic the Poserverse is. But PE pushes Poser to the limits of what Poser can support, and Poser is barely supporting itself these days, so it basically means that the onus is on me to have to push for her to succeed. I simply don't have time for that at the moment, and I cannot do that alone.

    Basically, PE is currently not suitable as a commercial Poser figure, its a specialist figure. To make her accessible to the majority of Poser vendors and users, we need to make tools that support her.

    I am obviously grateful for all the support PE has enjoyed over the last few years, but I hope everyone remembers that I did this as an artist (like most of you) taking a detour to try help solve a problem, not start a franchise.

    In any case I haven't been sitting still. In support for my comics, I have been making tools to help speed that process up. I will show you below what i have done. But maybe one day I can also start developing tools to make content for PE easier to make. Those tools will be super complicated and will take time to make, so just put PE on the shelf for now, and hopefully we can revive this party at some point.

    And so, like with PE, I still have hope that I can turn things around by showing what Poser can do. I've decided instead of moping about Poser, rather get the most out of it while Poser is still live. I stand my my view that Poser is brimming with unexploited potential, and I feel the longer its ignored, the more it will turn stale and just be forgotten, if its not too late already. I know that this is a very subjective opinion, but from my side of the world, in the world of CGI, gaming and god forbid DAZ Studio, Poser is pretty much dead in the water, which is a damn shame.

    So, I developed a number of scripts and put them all together over the course of the last year or two, into this almost steampunk like interface. I haven't shown it to that many people because I don't want to get people all excited for nothing. I am not ever gong to release this myself, I might hand it off to someone else. Debugging this thing would be a nightmare and will detract me from making comics, and moreover I feel that any of these features should actually be part of Poser by now, and therefore its not my job to do that. I can see that some might think that this is specifically tailored for me and wouldn't be of use to the average Poser user, but that is not entirely true.

    In addition, these scripts are relatively easy to make. They were developed over the course of 2 years but all the hours combined perhaps a month? I'm not even a professional developer, just imagine what a paid developer could achieve, given the right instructions?

    ***NSFW content***

    click to show

  • Hi Erogenesis, good to hear from you again. I am not the power user you are so a lot of what you have in your presentation went over my head, but some of it had me thinking "I have that issue and this is the solution".
    I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it, PE is my favorite female character and I have enough success with your mannequins to keep clothes on her when needed.


  • @tumble-weed said in erogenesis and poser:

    Hi Erogenesis, good to hear from you again. I am not the power user you are so a lot of what you have in your presentation went over my head, but some of it had me thinking "I have that issue and this is the solution".
    I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it, PE is my favorite female character and I have enough success with your mannequins to keep clothes on her when needed.


    Thank you too. I will definitely try to revive this project at some point but I really need to finish off all my comics a.s.a.p. Thank you for understanding!

  • @erogenesis

    You do what you need to do. Art is creation and we have to do what we want to do not what others expect us to do. Sure, like many others I want to see development of PE, but I am very happy with what I have. I also check in on your blog to see what you are up to so keep up the good work, I am a big fan.

  • @erogenesis
    Hee vogel!
    Goed van je te horen!

  • @erogenesis , I'm glad to see you're still considering PE after your comics. At the same time I'm sad to see that it won't happen until after your comics, but if that's how you support yourself then that's what needs to be done.

    PE is my go to figure in basically everything I do in Poser, nothing has been as versatile and easy to pose realistically as PE. The fact that there's only two pages of stuff for PE is killing me. Yeah it's all really top notch stuff, but LaFemme had double that the day she came out on the market.

    Speaking of LaFemme, she's a great figure for sure and it's very easy to get great poses and renders with her but I just can't get her to look how I want and that's why I prefer PE's aesthetics and realistic proportions. PE is the every day woman while LF is the endurance athlete at the Olympics and for my purposes I don't need an elite athlete in 90% of my renders.

    Even if you aren't working on PE atm, I would really love to see some more vendors putting out support for her that are more than clothes. Even if it's just fit morphs for already released hairs. I think the OOT hairs for LF look fantastic and I really wanted to use them on PE. I site mailed OOT on rendo asking if they would sell a fit morph for PE but they never responded. There's also the skins from 3Dream that really look amazing, I would love to see these for PE. Biscuits has some really nice face morphs and there were a number of great free face morphs released, but besides the one from Biscuits, there's no others on the market iirc. There's also the severe lack of shoes for PE on the visible marketplace, as with the face morphs, there are free ones but if you don't know where to look, you'll never find them.

    As far as Poser, yeah it doesn't look great and even though they said they were possibly developing the next version, it's probably in development hell right now. The lack of any communication or updates or... anything is really telling that SM are not the company that should be handling Poser. I've been using Studio a bit more lately and getting better at the GUI and it's becoming much easier to get what I want out of it. The fact that Studio, iray, Cycles and everything else are continually getting updates while Poser is stagnant is pathetic. Poser's version of Cycles is a dead end that can't be updated, and while it was great when it was first released, they dug a ditch for themselves and now they're screwed.

    I think I'm ranting a bit too much, so I'll just say that I'm glad you're doing ok and hope the best for ya and for the future of PE.

  • @johndoe641 I'm always tempted to wanna help and fix things but I really need to focus on my comics, or at least this series I'm working on now. I started the Disco Dragon back in 2014 and it should have been finished in 2016... but yeah. I'm on the last part and if the reception is good, I might be able to fix up some basic content and finally update those mannequins. But still I need to be careful promising stuff, and again, the temptation is so great (which is also why I avoid forums these days, its this temptation that made me decide to make PE in the first place). Its cool what you say about PE, thanks.

    But yes I have been dabbling with DS and Blender but I think blender 2.8 is winning it out for me. DS is a glorified Poser for me and still a bit of a niche market, and with iClone coming up I wouldn't be surprised if DS might drop off like poser one day. Blender has had a persistent userbase for over a decade now and its constantly getting udated. It has python scripting like Poser and you can basically do anything in it like in maya or max. The 2.8 UI update is a freaking godsend.

    I am just not looking forward to the switch, re-rigging everything, reprogramming everything. I have so much content created and prepped for poser, so much time invested in it, its one of the reasons I still bother with Poser. But yes, the utter lack of decisive action on behalf of Poser, in contrast to the insane amount of development in the rest of the world of CGI, is depressing, and that in itself makes it harder for me to open Poser in the morning. My girlfriend works for TT games and she's working on the new Star Wars game introduced at this year's E3, they're constantly improving their stuff, the devs and artists are fanatics... I wish Poser enjoyed this much fanaticism. Nerd3d was well on his way, even though I didn't agree with all of his decisions, at least it was moving in SOME direction! He and Larry were the only two that actually understood JCMs... but then they canned his ass. Shame.

    I will resume working on PE is Poser comes with a radical new version, with all their best features updated and refined, relevant to how artists actually work with it, and not new useless features, with NO bugs. And stop wasting time with figures, lets refine the ones we already have.

  • @erogenesis When I move from Poser it will be to Blender, not DS. I think you have it pegged right. And not even glorified. Just different.

  • @thoennes The funny thing is.... Poser is kind of like an "app". A simple GUI for allowing people to do some pretty impressive powerful things easily. Short of what a professional might need. That's the "omg, wtf???!" GUI of Max, Maya, Blender. But way enough for the artist type to do some cool stuff. Of course, that puts its current price way above that market. And the wrong platform. Probably ported to an iPad pro and $5-50 and it would kill. The ability to dispatch a render from the iPad to any network available render farm, seamlessly.... if it could use all its current content. Backwards compatible with P11 (at least) They would rule that space. A Blender bridge... I can dream.
    Affinity Designer shows what a ground-up graphics app can be on a tablet. Makes Illustrator seem like legacy SW from the 80's.

  • @fverbaas :D . TooEasyPoser
    Isn't Poser kind of easy right now? That was sort of the point of it's once-upon-a- time innovative, then dated, now app-like GUI. I mean for an artist setting up a fairly complex scene.